Agency is asking for proof of qualifications - security concerns
Thread poster: Sarah McDowell
Sarah McDowell
Sarah McDowell  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 07:01
Russian to English
+ ...
Nov 1, 2018

Hi everyone,

An agency I have worked with is asking for proof of qualifications as part of their freelancer registration process. They are asking for copies of diplomas or certificates. My question is how secure is this and if I send some sort of scan or photograph of the diploma, what is the best and most secure format to send it in? Should I password protect these documents so that they need to enter a password to view them? Or should I send it as a photo? I usually avoid sending
... See more
Hi everyone,

An agency I have worked with is asking for proof of qualifications as part of their freelancer registration process. They are asking for copies of diplomas or certificates. My question is how secure is this and if I send some sort of scan or photograph of the diploma, what is the best and most secure format to send it in? Should I password protect these documents so that they need to enter a password to view them? Or should I send it as a photo? I usually avoid sending such proof but in this case it's an agency I already work with. What would you do?

Best,
Sarah
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Jean Dimitriadis
Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Watermark Nov 1, 2018

Since you are already working with them, it seems a legitimate request. They just do this for verification purposes, maybe to be in line with some certification or audit.

My suggestion: You could watermark your diploma and send it as an image or as a PDF. PDF is probably the best.

Many editing applications offer this functionality.

What to say in the watermark?

It's up to you, but I would add something like:

Confidential
... See more
Since you are already working with them, it seems a legitimate request. They just do this for verification purposes, maybe to be in line with some certification or audit.

My suggestion: You could watermark your diploma and send it as an image or as a PDF. PDF is probably the best.

Many editing applications offer this functionality.

What to say in the watermark?

It's up to you, but I would add something like:

Confidential
Sent to [name of the agency] on [date]


This way, the file would be unusable for purposes other than verification.

Be sure to redact any personally identifiable information you don't want to share as well.

Jean

[Edited at 2018-11-01 05:44 GMT]
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Morano El-Kholy
Vadim Kadyrov
Joe France
Marcella Marino
Vladimir Filipenko
 
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 15:01
Member
English to Turkish
Why? Nov 1, 2018

Why are you afraid of sending a scanned copy of your diploma? What kind of security concerns do you anticipate if it came into the possession of an unauthorized party? Does it show any 'sensitive information'?

Christopher Schröder
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:01
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Protect it if you're going to comply Nov 1, 2018

You say you've already worked with them? So they know you're capable and not some sort of scammer! So why on earth do they now insist on having "proof"? Particularly as we all know how easy it is to Photoshop certificates nowadays.

If they're important enough to you for you to jump through their hoop, I suggest you do lots of things to protect it:
Redact personal information that they don't already know;
Watermark;
Scan a printout back in - as a jpg if that's more
... See more
You say you've already worked with them? So they know you're capable and not some sort of scammer! So why on earth do they now insist on having "proof"? Particularly as we all know how easy it is to Photoshop certificates nowadays.

If they're important enough to you for you to jump through their hoop, I suggest you do lots of things to protect it:
Redact personal information that they don't already know;
Watermark;
Scan a printout back in - as a jpg if that's more difficult to ocr than a pdf (I don't know);
Password protect to stop them doing anything other than viewing it. They don't need to be printing it etc.

BTW, if they cite some ISO number as their justification, tell them to reread the guiding notes and check with the auditor. My husband used to be one and he has plenty of experience of that sort of bogus claim.
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Morano El-Kholy
 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:01
German to English
Jpeg/pdf with watermark Nov 1, 2018

To be honest, I think you're worrying too much. Anyone with a graphics editing program (PhotoShop, PaintShop Pro, etc.) can fabricate a diploma or certificate. If I wanted to pass myself off as a graduate of an Ivy League university, I could find a copy of a related diploma on the Internet and reproduce it with my name as the degree recipient.

That said, you could scan / make a pdf/jpeg of of your diplomas/certificates, and if you don't have a graphics program to make a watermark y
... See more
To be honest, I think you're worrying too much. Anyone with a graphics editing program (PhotoShop, PaintShop Pro, etc.) can fabricate a diploma or certificate. If I wanted to pass myself off as a graduate of an Ivy League university, I could find a copy of a related diploma on the Internet and reproduce it with my name as the degree recipient.

That said, you could scan / make a pdf/jpeg of of your diplomas/certificates, and if you don't have a graphics program to make a watermark you could place a small piece of paper with "COPY" of some other text over an insignificant part of the document text prior to scanning. My daughter's diploma from McGill is in Latin, so most of the text is insignificant to the average requester.
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Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:01
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
One reason they might want it Nov 1, 2018

Sheila Wilson wrote:

You say you've already worked with them? So they know you're capable and not some sort of scammer! So why on earth do they now insist on having "proof"?

Sometimes government/EU tenders require the agency to submit documentation (including diplomas) of the translators they work with.


Kevin Fulton
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
diploma disease Nov 1, 2018

One of the Digital era benefits is one can quickly and easily find and check almost anything, especially modern official papers. Anyway, I also have a scanned .PNG of my diploma with a "COPY" watermark just in case.

As Katalin mentioned, sometimes they need a paper--almost any paper to prove one's degree, not necessarily in translation. Why, many translation companies still prefer IELTS/TOEFL (let alone CAE/GMAT) to a degree "with distinction" from some unis/countries


 
Adam Warren
Adam Warren  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:01
Member (2005)
French to English
Tenders - dead-end clients Nov 1, 2018

The handful of agencies to which I submitted my watermarked, password-protected degree certificate have never come back to me regarding participation in EU tenders. One of those agencies is suspected of identity theft, since several colleagues have complained of the same lack of follow-up. Another agency, in France, has my details but keeps bombarding me with increasingly detailed information - how long is a piece of string? Good hunting, of course, to you all, but an empty game-bag for these pr... See more
The handful of agencies to which I submitted my watermarked, password-protected degree certificate have never come back to me regarding participation in EU tenders. One of those agencies is suspected of identity theft, since several colleagues have complained of the same lack of follow-up. Another agency, in France, has my details but keeps bombarding me with increasingly detailed information - how long is a piece of string? Good hunting, of course, to you all, but an empty game-bag for these predators!

With kind regards,

Adam Warren (41189 - translator)
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RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:01
German to English
ISO 17100 Nov 1, 2018

Sheila,

As a matter of record, ISO 17100 does require the translation company to obtain documentary evidence of a translator's educational qualifications, specifically a degree in translation or a relevant foreign language, or a degree in any subject, depending on the number of years (full-time equivalent) of translation experience the translator has.

So please don't give the impression that this sort of requirement is bogus. It is perfectly legitimate, and there are no
... See more
Sheila,

As a matter of record, ISO 17100 does require the translation company to obtain documentary evidence of a translator's educational qualifications, specifically a degree in translation or a relevant foreign language, or a degree in any subject, depending on the number of years (full-time equivalent) of translation experience the translator has.

So please don't give the impression that this sort of requirement is bogus. It is perfectly legitimate, and there are no objections whatsoever to translators providing the very limited documentation required by ISO 17100 - all the more so in the case of an existing client.

Thank you,
Robin
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Elzbieta Lubelska
Kevin Fulton
writeaway
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:01
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
For ISO 17100 certification itself? Or for working with an ISO 17100-certified outsourcer? Nov 2, 2018

RobinB wrote:
As a matter of record, ISO 17100 does require the translation company to obtain documentary evidence of a translator's educational qualifications, specifically a degree in translation or a relevant foreign language, or a degree in any subject, depending on the number of years (full-time equivalent) of translation experience the translator has.

Obviously, I haven't read every ISO specification in full - or even one, TBH - so I’ve been looking around. What I’ve found is that for a freelance professional to gain certified status in their own name, evidence of a degree or experience is required. Here's what ITI says in their blog, along with a diagram of requirements (see https://www.iti.org.uk/more/iti-blog/1165-the-relevance-of-iso-17100-2015-to-freelance-translators):

1. Qualifications and Experience: Translators need to be able to demonstrate they have the necessary qualifications and experience.

But that's for translators' own certification, and very few of us will have that. As ITI also say in the blog:

For the majority of freelance translators, gaining certified status would be a costly and time-consuming process that is largely unnecessary for a freelancer.

In this thread, we're dealing with the most common situation - the demands an agency, one that may or may not be certified, makes of its suppliers (us). Unfortunately, the ISO specification comes with a hefty price tag .


 
Marcella Marino
Marcella Marino  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 13:01
Member (2016)
English to Italian
+ ...
Filing + certification reasons Nov 2, 2018

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:

Since you are already working with them, it seems a legitimate request. They just do this for verification purposes, maybe to be in line with some certification or audit.

My suggestion: You could watermark your diploma and send it as an image or as a PDF. PDF is probably the best.

Many editing applications offer this functionality.

What to say in the watermark?

It's up to you, but I would add something like:

Confidential
Sent to [name of the agency] on [date]


This way, the file would be unusable for purposes other than verification.

Be sure to redact any personally identifiable information you don't want to share as well.

Jean

[Edited at 2018-11-01 05:44 GMT]


I agree with what Jean wrote: if you are already working with this agency, they may want your certificates and diplomas just to file them and to have a complete documentation about you as a freelance translator. I also think that sending them in a .pdf format is one of the best ways.

Some agencies are also ISO certified and undergo audits on a regular basis. Having such documentation helps them demonstrating that they comply with the requirements set out in the concerned standards and obtaining the renewal of their certification.


 
RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:01
German to English
Certification of translation companies, not individual translators Nov 2, 2018

Sheila,

I am referring to the requirements for translation companies to be certified to ISO 17100, not individual translators (certification of individual translators is in any case quite controversial, and for good reason IMHO).

ISO 17100 requires translation companies (for which this standard was designed) to obtain documentary evidence from their translators (both in-house and external) that they meet certain educational and experience requirements. This has nothing
... See more
Sheila,

I am referring to the requirements for translation companies to be certified to ISO 17100, not individual translators (certification of individual translators is in any case quite controversial, and for good reason IMHO).

ISO 17100 requires translation companies (for which this standard was designed) to obtain documentary evidence from their translators (both in-house and external) that they meet certain educational and experience requirements. This has nothing to do with certification of individual translators, and everything to do with the (pretty minimal) obligations the standard imposes on translators (rather than companies).

I am aware that there is a lot of confusion among translators about what exactly they are expected to do if a translation company client is ISO 17100-certified. That's why the FIT ISO Standards Committee, of which I am a co-chair, has decided to develop guidance on this subject, covering what exactly translators can be reasonably expected to do, and what falls outside the scope of ISO 17100. The background to this is that it appears that some agencies require translators to provide them with documentation and other information that has nothing to do with ISO 17100, although the agencies claim it is an ISO 17100 requirement.

I hope this clarifies things.

Robin
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:01
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Interesting Nov 2, 2018

RobinB wrote:
I am aware that there is a lot of confusion among translators about what exactly they are expected to do if a translation company client is ISO 17100-certified. That's why the FIT ISO Standards Committee, of which I am a co-chair, has decided to develop guidance on this subject, covering what exactly translators can be reasonably expected to do, and what falls outside the scope of ISO 17100. The background to this is that it appears that some agencies require translators to provide them with documentation and other information that has nothing to do with ISO 17100, although the agencies claim it is an ISO 17100 requirement.

Some guidance would certainly be very useful. Will you be making something available here on ProZ.com in due course? It would be nice to have a link to guidelines or maybe an article.


 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:01
Member (2005)
Chinese to English
Your diplomas will be of security concern Nov 2, 2018

Your diplomas will be of security concern only if they carry your DOB. I guess most diplomas don't have this information on them, so they are not confidential documents.

 
RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:01
German to English
Goal of widespread availability Nov 3, 2018

Sheila,

As it currently stands, the plan is to ask FIT Council to make the guidance available to all FIT member associations, who can then distribute it to their members and/or publish it for general consumption on their websites - including a translation into the local language(s).

Robin

Sheila Wilson wrote:
Some guidance would certainly be very useful. Will you be making something available here on ProZ.com in due course? It would be nice to have a link to guidelines or maybe an article.


 


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Agency is asking for proof of qualifications - security concerns







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