Jun 18, 2008 23:07
15 yrs ago
Italian term
United Kingdom
avara poverta
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Dante
I am translating an article from German to English in which Dante is quoted as writing of the Catalans that they are characterised by an ‘avara poverta’. The German author/translator has rendered this as ‘Habsucht’ (avarice). Does this interpretation do Dante’s sentiment justice?
See the original here: http://tinyurl.com/6eo5z9
Thanks in advance. AJS
See the original here: http://tinyurl.com/6eo5z9
Thanks in advance. AJS
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +3 | greedy poverty |
writeaway
|
| 5 +1 | bitter misery |
Gemma Monco Waters
|
| 4 | greedy poverty |
Nora Mahony
|
| 3 | miserliness |
David Hollywood
|
| 3 | ungenerous poverty |
deep_1235
|
Proposed translations
+3
1 hr
Selected
greedy poverty
In one En translation, this is what I found:
E se mio frate questo antivedesse,
l’avara povertà di Catalogna
già fuggeria, perché non li offendesse;
And if my brother could but this foresee,
The greedy poverty of Catalonia
Straight would he flee, that it might not molest him;
http://italian.about.com/library/anthology/dante/blparadiso0...
HTH as they say...
E se mio frate questo antivedesse,
l’avara povertà di Catalogna
già fuggeria, perché non li offendesse;
And if my brother could but this foresee,
The greedy poverty of Catalonia
Straight would he flee, that it might not molest him;
http://italian.about.com/library/anthology/dante/blparadiso0...
HTH as they say...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
David Hollywood
: this is very nice and I really mean it :)
37 mins
|
|
thanks David. after my peer comment to you, I decided it was time to put my money where my mouth was and find an official translation. :-)
|
|
| agree |
Amphyon
7 hrs
|
| agree |
luskie
: yes, official translations, for Dante more than for everyone else!
7 hrs
|
|
Thanks. Absolutely, couldn't agree more. :-)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
42 mins
David Hollywood
Native in English
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
miserliness
Or, as other commentators contend, the "avara povertà di Catalogna" may refer to the miserliness of Catalan officials appointed by Charles to high positions ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0691019134...
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Note added at 43 mins (2008-06-18 23:51:07 GMT)
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"Habsucht" (avarice) ok but I think this might get the idea over Andrew
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2008-06-18 23:52:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of miserliness on the Web:
total lack of generosity with money
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2008-06-18 23:54:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of avarice on the Web:
reprehensible acquisitiveness; insatiable desire for wealth (personified as one of the deadly sins)
extreme greed for material wealth
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2008-06-18 23:55:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the idea of getting it and then not wanting to give it back is maybe the idea here
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2008-06-18 23:57:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"wanting to get it ... getting it ... and God forbid that I give it back"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2008-06-18 23:59:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of miser on the Web:
a stingy hoarder of money and possessions (often living miserably)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
A miser is a person who is reluctant to spend money, usually to the point of forgoing even basic comforts. The term derives from the Latin miser, meaning "poor" or "wretched."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miser
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2008-06-19 00:00:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
enjoying the research and hope it helps you :)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2008-06-19 00:04:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
thanks for feedback Andrew and how about "avariciousness" or "avaricious need"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-19 00:32:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Once you understand this avaricious need — once you know what a narcissist must take away from you and keep away from you — all the pieces of the perplexing ...
www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/malignant_narcissism.ht... - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
books.google.com/books?isbn=0691019134...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 43 mins (2008-06-18 23:51:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Habsucht" (avarice) ok but I think this might get the idea over Andrew
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2008-06-18 23:52:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of miserliness on the Web:
total lack of generosity with money
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2008-06-18 23:54:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of avarice on the Web:
reprehensible acquisitiveness; insatiable desire for wealth (personified as one of the deadly sins)
extreme greed for material wealth
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2008-06-18 23:55:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I think the idea of getting it and then not wanting to give it back is maybe the idea here
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 50 mins (2008-06-18 23:57:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"wanting to get it ... getting it ... and God forbid that I give it back"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2008-06-18 23:59:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Definitions of miser on the Web:
a stingy hoarder of money and possessions (often living miserably)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
A miser is a person who is reluctant to spend money, usually to the point of forgoing even basic comforts. The term derives from the Latin miser, meaning "poor" or "wretched."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miser
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2008-06-19 00:00:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
enjoying the research and hope it helps you :)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 57 mins (2008-06-19 00:04:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
thanks for feedback Andrew and how about "avariciousness" or "avaricious need"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-19 00:32:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Once you understand this avaricious need — once you know what a narcissist must take away from you and keep away from you — all the pieces of the perplexing ...
www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/malignant_narcissism.ht... - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
Note from asker:
| Hi, David. The problem is that the author/translator is writing about modern-day nationalism and the desire of certain Catalan politicians to assert some sort of claim over the Balearics. So ‘miserliness’ doesn’t really fit the context. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: can you find an official translation of the Dante? that would be very helpful. seems to me that it has been translated./ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Gabriel_Rossetti ??
10 mins
|
|
an "official" translation is always relative but I take your point :)
|
|
| neutral |
Gemma Monco Waters
: Dante Gabriel Rossetti translated Dante
14 hrs
|
+1
6 hrs
Gemma Monco Waters
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
&
English
Specializes in field
Italy
always ready for a new challenge
Native in: English 
, Italian
Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English, French to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
bitter misery
poverty that makes you bitter and cruel, like a miser
9 hrs
greedy poverty
These are but two translations, but --
Longfellow says:
what ill-rule brings, he would already flee
from Catalonia's grasping poverty,
aware that it may cause him injury;
and Mandelbaum says:
And if my brother could but this foresee,
The greedy poverty of Catalonia
Straight would he flee, that it might not molest him;
I like 'greedy poverty' because greed is EXTREMELY high on the list of Dante's least-favourite sins.
I found a citation of a well-known translation of the same into Catalan, citing the translator's note, which gives some background. If you have French, Catalan isn't too bad :)
'La cèlebre avara povertà di Catalogna fa referència al fet que el germà de Carles, Robert d'Anjou, havia viscut un temps a Catalunya com a ostatge i, quan arribà a Nàpols com a rei, anava acompanyat de nobles i cavallers catalans que degueren fer-se famosos per la rapacitat. El rei, doncs, hauria d'apartar-se d'aquesta gent per no acabar ell mateix perjudicat. En tot cas, sembla que l'avarícia dels catalans ja començava a ser un tòpic habitual.'
Longfellow says:
what ill-rule brings, he would already flee
from Catalonia's grasping poverty,
aware that it may cause him injury;
and Mandelbaum says:
And if my brother could but this foresee,
The greedy poverty of Catalonia
Straight would he flee, that it might not molest him;
I like 'greedy poverty' because greed is EXTREMELY high on the list of Dante's least-favourite sins.
I found a citation of a well-known translation of the same into Catalan, citing the translator's note, which gives some background. If you have French, Catalan isn't too bad :)
'La cèlebre avara povertà di Catalogna fa referència al fet que el germà de Carles, Robert d'Anjou, havia viscut un temps a Catalunya com a ostatge i, quan arribà a Nàpols com a rei, anava acompanyat de nobles i cavallers catalans que degueren fer-se famosos per la rapacitat. El rei, doncs, hauria d'apartar-se d'aquesta gent per no acabar ell mateix perjudicat. En tot cas, sembla que l'avarícia dels catalans ja començava a ser un tòpic habitual.'
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Gemma Monco Waters
: wow! Is that Catalan! It is perfectly understandable to an italian speaker! Live and learn!
6 hrs
|
12 hrs
ungenerous poverty
ungenerous poverty
Discussion