This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Créance d'aide ou d'assistance
pour l'Inde

Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

Représentant savoir

anglais translation:

representing, as follows (to wit)

Added to glossary by Séverine Watson
May 13, 2022 12:20
2 yrs ago
51 viewers *
français term

Représentant savoir

français vers anglais Droit / Brevets Droit (général) Inheritance; declaration of estate
Once again, this appears in a declaration of estate under the section "PARTS IMPOSABLES ET LIQUIDATION DES BIENS".

The heir XXX
Part lui revenant xxxxx €*
Représentant savoir :
Part légale xxxxx €*

*The amounts are the same in this case.

Does anyone know what this expression means? I am tempted to just translate it as "representing", but I really don't want to bebarking up the wrong tree.

Thanks!
Proposed translations (anglais)
4 +4 representing, as follows (to wit)
4 +1 Stating that he/she knows
5 -1 Representative(s):
References
<u>Règle</u> « À savoir (suivi ou non...

Discussion

Daryo May 18, 2022:
@ Adrian MM this question hasn't got much to do with contract law, either in French or English.

It has a lot to do with the style of writing used when creating forms, and the capacity to recognise it and interpret it correctly. As the context always wins, you need a larger sample of the form for that.
Adrian MM. May 17, 2022:
faux ami representations @ Daryo Careful : Représentant IMO is a false friend of representing in the sense of déclarant. Cut to the 'crystal-clear' doublet of *déclarations* et garanties = representations and warranties. So revise your studies of EN & FR contract law as a matter of urgency.
Daryo May 15, 2022:
Perfect! Makes it crystal clear.

The implied full sentence is

"(the submitter of this form) declares that he/she knows that ... " the following amount is the "Part légale" of the total inheritance received (the sum under "Part lui revenant")
Séverine Watson (asker) May 14, 2022:
References Hi all,
Thanks so much for your comments so far.
The form in question is: 2705-SD (https://www.impots.gouv.fr/formulaire/2705-sd/declaration-de...

I've tracked down a declaration online that looks very similar to mine (see page 2 of the PDF) and also uses the expression "représentant savoir". It's why it makes me wonder whether this is a set phrase in the world of wills and estates:
https://www.univ-tours.fr/medias/fichier/deliberation-n-2021...

At Daryo's request, I'm also attaching a screenshot of what follows.

I'm afraid there's not much more info I can give!
JH Trads May 14, 2022:
difficult to be sure that what is meant is "à savoir"...the text does not make sense as it is, and "Représentant à savoir" does not sound super logic or natural to me, the typical construction being: "Représentant X (something, some value, etc.), à savoir...". For all we know, it could be a dictation error (avoir, devoir, etc...). Demanding clarification from the client seems warranted. Otherwise, adding a note indicating that, as it is, the corresponding text does not make sense.
Daryo May 13, 2022:
What kind of information comes after "Représentant savoir : " ?

What is the full title of this form in French? Is that some kind of tax form?
ph-b (X) May 13, 2022:
(à) savoir Part revenant à l'héritier : xx€, représentant, (à) savoir, (sa) part légale : xx€. Your "representing" is correct. (À) savoir used like this in formal documents is often translated as "namely", "to wit", "viz.", etc. It's also found when you start a list of sums that make up a total: un montant de xx€, savoir a : x€, b : x€ etc. " À savoir (suivi ou non de deux points)... [Sert à introduire une explication, un développement] Synon. c'est-à-dire."(https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/savoir). See also https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/375...

Proposed translations

+4
1 heure
français term (edited): représentant(,) savoir
Selected

representing, as follows (to wit)

Part lui revenant xxxxx €* > the share accruing / due to him ...

Représentant (,) savoir > namely / viz. representing / accounting for (so 'satisfying' in whole or in part') >

Part légale xxxxx €* : the automatic, statutory entitlement (UK Solicitor-speak: entrenched share on the statutory trusts) of ....

I won't *complicate* matters (and confuse our UK accountants) by referring in Anglo-Am. law either to satisfaction of 'portion-debts (e.g. a lifetime debt of honour owed by a parent ) by willed legacies, or the doctrines of abatement : reduction or ademption : wipe-out of legacies when there aren't enough assets to go round.

Otherwise, ph-b's savoir parsed interpretation or 'construction' of the Will had - as per usual - been my first thought.

FRE/DEU chosen in the Proz Weblink for : Les biens ci-dessus inventoriés ont été laissés en garde de Monsieur XY qui s‘en charge pour les *représenter* quand et à qui il appartiendra = Dann wird er besagte Güter ...erneut "vorstellen > 'then he will be re-submitting the assets...'

Example sentence:

Equitable doctrine of satisfaction is said to be founded on the maxim that equity imputes an intention to fulfill an obligation.

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-german/law-contracts/7060154-représenter-hier.html

Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X) : "As per usual" (:-)), not sure I understand all of your explanations, but I think I get the gist of it. Certainly agree with "namely", "viz.", and "to wit" (see my discussion post).
39 minutes
Thanks, Philippe. My hunch and instinct, though sometimes wrong, was that the share due to the beneficiary coincides, tallies and dovetails with the 'statutory portion'.
agree Jennifer White
4 heures
Thanks, Jennifer, and merci.
agree philgoddard : Not "to wit", or "viz", though. Where I am, we're well into the 21st century.
17 heures
Never mind, Phil. It's a small point compared to the larger picture of représentant being a faux ami of representing > déclarant.
agree Mpoma : to wit. Use it all the time. Particularly in the quite commonly heard set strigine legal expression "to wit to whoo!"
18 heures
Thanks and merci mpoma. Funnily enough, spectacled owl alias 'hibou' used to be my nickname at EN & FR school....
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks again, Adrian!"
+1
39 minutes

Stating that he/she knows

The heir is making a statement that he or she knows certain facts comverning the deceased and the estate

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2022-05-13 13:00:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SP: concerning

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2022-05-13 13:07:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Liability for Honest Misrepresentation - JSTOR
https://www.jstor.org › stable › pdf
by S Williston · 1911 · Cited by 216 — The falsity and fraud consist in representing that he knows the facts to be true of his own knowledge, when he has not such knowledge.' (Litchfield v.
26 pages

In Re Friedlander, 170 BR 472 - CourtListener.com
https://www.courtlistener.com › opinion › in-re-friedlan...
31 Mar 1994 — ... with termites and the seller answers that it isn't, the seller is implicitly representing that she knows the house is not infested.

[2008] Festiva is now managing my resort, how bad is it going ...
https://tugbbs.com › ... › US - Eastern States Timesharing
29 Jul 2008 — However, if she is not a legal person, she shouldn't be representing that she knows what happened in the course of the legal proceedings ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo : without more context, that's what's makes most sense // Literally: "(the submitter of this tax form) stating to know that ..." - as confirmed by additional context. // Also, no "à" missing - no typo in the ST.
2 heures
thanks
disagree ShaneBoisvert : Don't think so, especially if it's in a table-like section like this.
2 heures
thanks, noted, but table-like sections are quite common in legal documents nowadays
agree Brianna Finley (X)
3 jours 1 heure
Something went wrong...
-1
3 heures

Representative(s):

"to wit" and "being" are standard choices, but in a larger context, I think keeping it shorter, with the (s) and colon doing the job of "à savoir"
Peer comment(s):
neutral Jennifer White : I think it's a present participle, not a noun. I think Adrian's answer is correct./It means "namely" or similar. Have seen this before in similar contexts
2 heures
perhaps, but representative is représentant, a full-fledged noun
neutral AllegroTrans : If this is a statement by the heir I don't think he or she will be a representative of anybody
3 heures
disagree Daryo : CL5 clue: "Représentant" is not "un représentant" - a noun in this ST // "Représentant ..." = participe présent du verbe représenter.
1 jour 13 heures
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 jours 6 heures
Reference:

Règle

« À savoir (suivi ou non de deux points), loc. conj. ou adv. de coord. de phrase. [Sert à introduire une explication, un développement] Synon. c'est-à-dire. »
(https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/savoir)

« savoir (à savoir)
L’expression à savoir s’emploie dans le sens de « c’est-à-dire ». Elle introduit une énumération ou une explication. »
(https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/clefsfp/...

Exemples

«...la condamnation de l'employeur au versement des salaires restant dus jusqu'au terme du contrat de travail, à savoir la somme de 4400 euros, constitue une indemnisation suffisante du préjudice subi... »
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000029612009

« La fraction excédant le montant de 82 8272 €, à savoir la somme de 47 728 € sera donc soumise à cotisations de sécurité sociale.... »
https://boss.gouv.fr/portail/accueil/indemnites-de-rupture.h...

« L’ancien combattant consent et s’engage à verser au Directeur ledit prix d’achat de la manière suivante, savoir : la somme de dollars ( $) versée au moment de la signature des présentes
(https://laws.justice.gc.ca/fra/reglements/C.R.C.,_ch._1594/p...

« À mon décès, tous mes biens reviendront à
l’association sans but lucratif …
la Fondation …
Ces deux organismes se partageront tous mes biens à l’exception des deux legs particuliers qu’ils devront exécuter, à savoir :
(https://www.dons-legs.be/v2/leguer-ou-donner/)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Conor McAuley : Excellent explanation, with references!
1 jour 14 heures
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Recherche par terme
  • Travaux
  • Forums
  • Multiple search