mrrafe Aug 29, 2021:

Disclaim @Lara I’m trying not to be as pedantic as I’d like because it seems unhelpful here, but no, we can’t disclaim statements other than misquotes or misattributions; and we can’t disclaim facts, as facts can’t be attributed to someone in the first place. They belong only to reality.

Arguably we can refute or rebut facts; but I wouldn’t even say that, as one of my supervising attorneys taught me facts are immutable and undeniable because otherwise they wouldn’t be facts.

Facts usually is a bad word choice in repudiation; “deny the fact that” usually means “deny the claim that” or (better) “deny that,” omitting the f- word which contributes nothing besides trouble.

Again, that’s if we want to be technically correct.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 29, 2021:

@ Mrrafe We can say to "disclaim a statement" though, can't we? Or "disclaim a fact" even...

mrrafe Aug 26, 2021:

Disclaim More properly I’d say she’s “denying”…the fact. Property or children are disclaimed, statements are contradicted.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 26, 2021:

@ Corina I have put DISCLAIM (with colloquial usage, not legal):
"At the hearing on January 22 2020, the Claimant stated that the minor is not the daughter of the Respondent, disclaiming this fact under any circumstances."
Although I have suggested to the client the idea of using "contradict". But in the meantime I think this may work anyway.
Should I close the question without an answer?

Ioana-Leda Costea-Nicolae Aug 26, 2021:

@Lara, i think the Romanian text is pretty ambiguous because it's not really clear who is not making any claims with regard to the child. It might also mean that the mother stated that the child was not the defendant's daughter and that HE (the defendant) was not making any claim that he was the father and that he does not want anything to do with the child after the proceedings are over. Sometimes, when I've come across sentences that were not very clear, I managed to understand what was meant later on when I finished reading the whole text that needed to be translated, because the same fact was referenced in a clearer way later on.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina Thanks, by the way "refute a claim" is not solely a legal expression in English, in fact this is not legal at all, it simply means to say a fact is not true, even in colloquial language.
In the meantime, are you going to post the answer to the Kudoz question itself, so that I can put your answer (with your Kudoz points) into the glossary? Let me know what you want to do.
Thanks.

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

sorry, is hard by text. I got your point but wee are discussing legal things now, not translation issues. Legally, the birth certificate is good. I think the birth certificate is not wrong because nobody done a mistake when they done it. In Romania we may think that the birth certificate is wrong when somebody wrote wrong name, dates etc. That birth certificate was good until the moment she declared the father's minor is not the biological father. Now, after the trial, the father needs to change the birth certificate.

mrrafe Aug 25, 2021:

refute Refute = disprove; what we seem to be discussing here is repudiate or disavow.

To my mind in US, a birth certif isn't about truth/lies or biological reality; it's just a position statement by a person listed as parent or child, which a court may ratify or not. Absent a conflict, the court's main interest is not to ascertain the biology but to ensure no one is unwillingly vested with unjustifiable privileges or burdens.

Well, any revision does have to be ratified by a court before the municipal clerk will officially accept it for filing, but the court proceeding usually is uncontested.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina You have misunderstood me, this is not the translation, I was trying to explain what I think the meaning is, that is to say, is the mother saying that although the birth certificate states that YYY is the father, she is now changing this fact and is saying that he is not the father really...I mean are the facts of the case no saying that the birth certificate is incorrect because YYY (husband) is not really the father?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

if is me who is doing the translation, I will not translate with denied. You change the meaning of the paragraph or the sentence.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

No I would not talking about a Court claim - I mean that the mother denies the statement (or the fact) that the husband is the father of the child.

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

If I am right just a judge can "refute the claim", not a claimant.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

Deny I think we would say "refute the claim" is this better?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

I cannot answer to this question because I need to see the birth certificate. If you have the birth certificate have a look to the father's name and see if it is matching with the defendant's name.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina So the birth certificate states the defendant is the father of the baby? Or is the father on the birth certificate a different person? I did not understand all your sentences.

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

"în ședința din 22 ianuarie 2020, că minora nu este fiica pârâtului, neformulând nici o cerere în privința minorei.

"Denying the claim under any circumstances..."? Just checking".

neformulând nici o cerere în privința minorei. - not making any claim regarding the minor or claiming nothing regarding the minor
I do not think that the term Denying is the right one here, that's why I have explain you the text, but is your choice to make and to decide.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina Thanks, but is this not what I asked in the first discussion box?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

according to the text that you need to translate, yes. But to tell you it I need a DNA test.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ CORINA So she told a lie in the beginning, and now she is admitting that she reported a false fact on the birth certificate and that the baby is not the baby of YYY after all?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

when you have a baby and you go to make the birth certificate you declare to the council the mother and the father but can be another biological father (because you lied when you registered the child). The person who is there will believe you will not ask for a DNA test. After, the father declared on the birth certificate can find the true and can ask a paternity test on the trial.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina The reason I do not understand is because the defendant is YYY. THerefore, the paragraph is saying that the child was born to YYY, but even so this same child is not his baby....? This is not possible biologically.

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

născută la X martie 20xx în Rm. Vâlcea, din părinți YYY si ZZZ, the minor was born from the parents (and names). But I will translate : According with the birth certificate attached to the file(or folder) by the claimant, which expressly mentioned, on the session from..., that the minor is not the daughter of the defendant, not making any claim regarding to the minor.
Sorry if my English translation is not perfect. My target language is Romanian or Spanish.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina OK, so what exactly does this part mean? "din pariniti..." and then naming both parents:

născută la 5 martie 2019 în Rm. Vâlcea, din YYY(Husband) si ZZZ(Wife), ?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

no, she didn't change her mind. I am guessing she was filing the divorce or splitting a relationship. So, when she started the trial she asked for something and she had a baby borne during the trial but the baby's father is not the defendant, that's why , the claimant of this trail she has expressly specified that the bay is not with the defendant and she presented the birth certificate of the child.

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

@ Corina So she changed her mind? This is the point I am trying to make - did I understand this bit correctly - i.e. it was her that submitted the birth certificate, although it was her again that claimed otherwise and that the certificate was incorrect after all...?

CORINA LOICA Aug 25, 2021:

Something like this: During the trial, the claimant gave birth to a child, XX, born on X March 20xx in Rm. Vâlcea, of parents YYY and ZZZ, according to the birth certificate submitted to the file, by the claimant, who specified, in the meeting of xx January 2020 , that the minor is not the daughter of the defendant, not formulating any request/claim regarding the minor. "

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 25, 2021:

Could I also check: Would I be correct to say that the Claimant submitted the birth certificate but then denied her original certificate and said that the baby was not the baby of the father on the birth certificate?

"Pe parcursul procesului, reclamanta a dat naștere unui copil, XX, născută la X martie 20xx în Rm. Vâlcea, din părinți YYY si ZZZ, conform certificatului de naștere depus la dosar, de reclamantă, care a precizat, în ședința din xx ianuarie 2020, că minora nu este fiica pârâtului, neformulând nici o cerere în privința minorei. "