Editing PDF document
Người gửi thông tin lên tuyến đoạn: Gary Hess

Gary Hess  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:05
German to English
Dec 4, 2020

This topic has been covered before in plenty of places on PROZ (e.g. https://www.proz.com/forum/general_technical_issues/313921-editing_pdf_files.html).

However, an old and reliable client has suddenly started sending me PDF files to proofread! Has something changed in the world? Is it now possible to efficiently edit PDF documents with Trac
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This topic has been covered before in plenty of places on PROZ (e.g. https://www.proz.com/forum/general_technical_issues/313921-editing_pdf_files.html).

However, an old and reliable client has suddenly started sending me PDF files to proofread! Has something changed in the world? Is it now possible to efficiently edit PDF documents with Tracked Changes, like in Word?

Background: This translation client sometimes sends me English documents for editing. In the past, they always sent Word documents and I returned the corrected documents with Tracked Changes. It is a reasonable system. Now they are talking about a new Content Management System, but it appears that corrections have to be made in the PDF files. Has there possibly been some new development with Adobe Acrobat PRO or Adobe Illustrator? I don't have either of these programs and I don't want to use them unless absolutely necessary.

Gary Hess

[Edited at 2020-12-05 10:14 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Tây Ban Nha
Local time: 22:05
Thành viên kể từ 2007
English
+ ...
"Comments" Dec 4, 2020

The comments tool in the latest free edition handles the tracking of changes. You can use the cursor to insert, delete and move text. You can also highlight text and leave comments. So it can be done, yes. It's a little more unwieldy and less clear, but if that's what the client wants...

Chris S
Morano El-Kholy
Robert Rietvelt
Jorge Payan
 

Tom in London
Vương Quốc Anh
Local time: 22:05
Thành viên kể từ 2008
Italian to English
NIGHTMARE ON AUTOCAD STREET Dec 4, 2020

You can't do that with very complex PDFs.

One of my clients recently sent me 30 PDFs of very large files that had originally been created with AutoCad. The client converted them to Word for me (using better conversion software than what I have. I have Acrobat Professional and AAABY and they just can’t cut the mustard for complex files like these). Each of the original CAD files was a large-format technical drawing consisting of numerous images with titles, captions, notes, borders
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You can't do that with very complex PDFs.

One of my clients recently sent me 30 PDFs of very large files that had originally been created with AutoCad. The client converted them to Word for me (using better conversion software than what I have. I have Acrobat Professional and AAABY and they just can’t cut the mustard for complex files like these). Each of the original CAD files was a large-format technical drawing consisting of numerous images with titles, captions, notes, borders, etc.

It would be easy to translate all of the text on an Autocad file if you have Autocad - but Autocad costs $ thousands and requires an annual subscription. This puts it beyond the means of most normal translators. There is also software you can purchase that claims to be able to edit Autocad files even if you haven’t got Autocad. But if the person who created the Autocad file was undisciplined in their use of layers and classes, the text on the Autocad drawing may be all over the place, each bit on a random layer or in a different class, buried deep in the file at different places. Nightmare!

The problem with converting a complex document of that kind from PDF to Word is that Word creates a large number of invisible text boxes, each containing a fragment of the text and usually broken up in a very illogical manner (if, for instance, a caption on the original file had been written carelessly with a double space instead of a single space in one particular place, or if an annotation alongside a detail drawing had been broken into several lines to keep it compact).

These text boxes in the Word file will be all over the place, often overlapping one another. You will find that when you rewrite anything in any text box (converting the source language to the target language) and if your translation is longer or shorter than the source text, Word will automatically shift all the other text boxes out of the way, including text boxes that may be very far away from the one you just changed. It may even shift all of them out of the margins and off the page. Think of it as though you were standing in the middle of an extremely crowded room. You move your elbows to make some space for yourself, and people a long way away from you will be shoved aside, or even out the door.

Up to a point, by dint of painstakingly re-paginating the whole file, you may be able to save the formatting to something that comes acceptably close to the formatting of the original.

But with very complex PDFs made from CAD files, and that were then converted to Word, you may find that just when you think you've got everything lining up more or less decently, you may put the finishing touch by changing one tiny space or a single letter, and the whole thing goes awry again.

(And remember: even if you're being paid extra - not very likely - for all the time you waste trying to do this, it will never give anything like an acceptable result).

I have found at least 20 applications out there, some online and some downloadable, including Adobe products, that claim to be able to accurately convert PDFs to Word; but having tried many of them, I find they all rely on creating those invisible text boxes. For that reason, you always end up with exactly the same problem.

If a complex PDF file containing numerous graphics, captions, etc. is converted to Word I don’t believe there is any software that can do this in any way other than creating a large number of text boxes.

Even with simpler, linear PDFs with just a few images, tables, etc., there are always formatting problems that require the translator to spend extra non-translating time, shifting things around, creating new tables, etc. With complex PDFs such as the one I’ve described, they are impossible to translate without creating a chaotic mess.

SEQUEL:

In the case of this particular job I gave up and created a glossary instead, by simply copy/pasting all the source text from the Word conversion (leaving out all the images) into an ordinary Word file, re-aligning all the text and unifying the fonts/font sizes. I then created an Excel file as the glossary (two columns) by copy/pasting the source text into the left-hand column of an Excel file, and typing the target text into the right-hand column. I sent the glossary to the client- leaving it up to the end user to replace all the Italian text in the CAD file with the English text in my glossary.

This was an awful experience I will avoid in the future.

I know the foregoing is not exactly on-topic but I needed to get it off my chest


[Edited at 2020-12-04 16:50 GMT]
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Mervyn Henderson
Chris S
Morano El-Kholy
EHANLI
neilmac
P.L.F.Persio
MollyRose
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Vương Quốc Anh
Swedish to English
+ ...
It makes life easier for them Dec 4, 2020

Because they can see exactly where the changes are in the layout.

It is slower than Word as Sheila says, but it gets easier with time. Highlight the offending text and then right-click or press the menu key (next to the right-hand Windows key) and then N to add a note. Or R to strike through the text and add the new text, but it’s not as visible for them.

They can then see a list of changes in the right-hand column plus highlights in the text.

I’m just
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Because they can see exactly where the changes are in the layout.

It is slower than Word as Sheila says, but it gets easier with time. Highlight the offending text and then right-click or press the menu key (next to the right-hand Windows key) and then N to add a note. Or R to strike through the text and add the new text, but it’s not as visible for them.

They can then see a list of changes in the right-hand column plus highlights in the text.

I’m just about to do 200 pages of this. Not looking forward to it. And they always **** it up.

NB It’s only viable for genuine proofreading. Not heavy editing.
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Philip Lees
MollyRose
 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Liên bang Nga
Local time: 01:05
English to Russian
Try Infix Dec 5, 2020

Infix PDF Editor
You can edit any editable text or insert text boxes to overlap the uneditable.
If your client wants you to proofread with track changes turned on directly in PDF, ask them to show you an example of how they suppose to do that.

[Edited at 2020-12-05 21:19 GMT]


 

Tom in London
Vương Quốc Anh
Local time: 22:05
Thành viên kể từ 2008
Italian to English
£££ Dec 6, 2020

Stepan Konev wrote:

Infix PDF Editor
You can edit any editable text or insert text boxes to overlap the uneditable.
If your client wants you to proofread with track changes turned on directly in PDF, ask them to show you an example of how they suppose to do that.

[Edited at 2020-12-05 21:19 GMT]


£80/year is too much for me because fortunately I hardly ever need to edit PDFs.


Stepan Konev
 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Liên bang Nga
Local time: 01:05
English to Russian
Indeed Dec 6, 2020

Tom in London wrote:
£80/year is too much for me because fortunately I hardly ever need to edit PDFs.

Definitely it is too much if you rarely use it. However, in comparison with AutoCAD, Infix is almost for free 10 times


 

Georgi Kovachev  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 00:05
Thành viên kể từ 2010
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
A rival product is offered for about 15 EUR/year Dec 11, 2020

Tom in London wrote:

Stepan Konev wrote:

Infix PDF Editor
You can edit any editable text or insert text boxes to overlap the uneditable.
If your client wants you to proofread with track changes turned on directly in PDF, ask them to show you an example of how they suppose to do that.

[Edited at 2020-12-05 21:19 GMT]


£80/year is too much for me because fortunately I hardly ever need to edit PDFs.


FlexiPDF (https://www.softmaker.com/en/shop-flexipdf/subscribe) provides the same functionality as Infix, but the subscription is about 15 EUR per year for Bulgaria, probably higher for the UK.


 

Gary Hess  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:05
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
client finally answers... Dec 14, 2020

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know that Acrobat Reader allows editing (to some extent) within documents now. That is good to know (even if it is not a very convenient feature).

The client finally answered: It turns out they have switched to a Typo3 CMS and the only option is to send me a PDF file, which can then be exported to Word. I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to "process" a Typo3 document in SDL Trados? This project involves editing non-native-speaker English, but
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Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know that Acrobat Reader allows editing (to some extent) within documents now. That is good to know (even if it is not a very convenient feature).

The client finally answered: It turns out they have switched to a Typo3 CMS and the only option is to send me a PDF file, which can then be exported to Word. I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to "process" a Typo3 document in SDL Trados? This project involves editing non-native-speaker English, but that does resemble translation to some extent.

Some other PDF tools I have tried and can recommend:

- My favorite PDF reader (free): SumtraPDF
- Free PDF tools: PDFill PDF Tools
- Paid PDF editor (Windows): PDFill PDF Editor (I have used this for small-scale editing of PDF files)
- Online PDF tools + editing: Smallpdf (a Swiss company that offers some free services in small quantities and more services for EUR 7.50/month)

Gary
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Stephanie Busch  Identity Verified
Đức
Local time: 23:05
Thành viên kể từ 2010
English to German
+ ...
SDL Trados Studio file type Dec 14, 2020

Gary Hess wrote:

I do wonder if it wouldn't be possible to "process" a Typo3 document in SDL Trados?


It seems there is a SDL Trados Studio file type for this, which has been recommended by Jerzy Czopik on this page:

https://community.sdl.com/product-groups/translationproductivity/f/studio/16928/is-there-a-sdl-studio-2017-filetype-for-typo3-xlf-and-xml-files-available

It can be downloaded from this page:

https://www.loctimize.com/en/development/typo3-l10nmgr/


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Liên bang Nga
Local time: 01:05
English to Russian
Not downloadable Dec 14, 2020

Stephanie Busch wrote:
It can be downloaded from this page:

Actually, the link is not downloadable as Jerzy and Evzen state. It just opens the file contents. At SDL Community, where Dries Moerloose tried to explain this issue 3 years ago ('this link leads me to the contents of the sdlsetting file'), the two experienced experts failed to understand Dries Moerloose's concern...
To use the contents under this link, you should create an empty *.sdlftsettings file or just copy any other *.sdlftsettings giving it a different name, say Typo3_filetype.sdlftsettings. Open it with Notepad(++) and paste the contents that opens under the said link.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Hà Lan
Local time: 23:05
Thành viên kể từ 2006
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Depends on the browser Dec 14, 2020

Stepan Konev wrote:
Actually, the link is not downloadable as Jerzy and Evzen state. It just opens the file contents.


If your browser opens the file instead of offering to download it, then that is your browser's doing. Your browser decides that it's not going to show you a download dialog but just open the file instead. One way to make sure that you download the file, is to right-click the link and select your browser's file-save option:

https://www.loctimize.com/fileadmin/download/typo3-l10nmgr/TYPO3_LocalizationManager.sdlftsettings

If I'm not mistaken, it's possible to change a setting on the server that would request the browser not to open the file.

[Edited at 2020-12-14 19:17 GMT]


Jorge Payan
 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Liên bang Nga
Local time: 01:05
English to Russian
Maybe yes Dec 14, 2020

Samuel Murray wrote:
If your browser opens the file instead of offering to download it, then that is your browser's doing.

Ah, you are right. It reads 'Save link as'. I expected something like 'Save file as'. Thank you.

[Edited at 2020-12-15 01:02 GMT]


 


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