| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Is a living wage possible? Thread poster: Neil Corrigan
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Neil Corrigan
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:49
Chinese to English
+ ...
Hello,
I run a business, or rather, I ran one until Covid destroyed my business. Now I'm trying to draw on my almost 20 years of experience with Mandarin to launch into a new career- translation. I have a degree in Chinese (modern and classical) and have done odd translation jobs here and there. I'm currently teaching myself finance and economics so I can specialise, but right now I can only translate general texts. I've had a few offers, but they are incredibly low, such as 0.01 US... See more Hello,
I run a business, or rather, I ran one until Covid destroyed my business. Now I'm trying to draw on my almost 20 years of experience with Mandarin to launch into a new career- translation. I have a degree in Chinese (modern and classical) and have done odd translation jobs here and there. I'm currently teaching myself finance and economics so I can specialise, but right now I can only translate general texts. I've had a few offers, but they are incredibly low, such as 0.01 US per Chinese-English word. Is this normal? I've looked around and the going rate seems to be much more reasonable (0.25-0.3 US/word); why am I being offered 0.01/word? Is this all my 20 years of diligent study can afford me? I have a wife and three children to feed, so I need a living wage.
Any suggestions would be extremely welcome
Neil
[Edited at 2022-04-08 06:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-04-09 10:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X) 
Italy
Local time: 08:49
English to Italian
| Is a living wage possible? | Apr 7, 2022 |
Hi Neil
I am afraid you are trying to start a career in a bad time: The pandemic is still not ended and a dangerous war started
we all risk to be in difficulties, apart some niche area as e.g. foreign papers for people leaving their countries
I just read an EU study dated February 2022 and I f... See more Hi Neil
I am afraid you are trying to start a career in a bad time: The pandemic is still not ended and a dangerous war started
we all risk to be in difficulties, apart some niche area as e.g. foreign papers for people leaving their countries
I just read an EU study dated February 2022 and I found it discouraging
Hold On! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Malone
France
Local time: 08:49
Member (2004)
French to English
+ ...
| The simple answer to your question is yes... but | Apr 7, 2022 |
Hi Neil,
The simple answer to your question about a living wage is "Yes".
The truthful answer is also yes, but it's a bit more complicated than that. I know from personal experience that the answer is definitely "yes", as I've been doing just that as a freelancer for over twenty years now.
But that's enough about me. You have taken a good step by creating a profile for yourself on this site, which I believe is a good starting point for you.
Th... See more Hi Neil,
The simple answer to your question about a living wage is "Yes".
The truthful answer is also yes, but it's a bit more complicated than that. I know from personal experience that the answer is definitely "yes", as I've been doing just that as a freelancer for over twenty years now.
But that's enough about me. You have taken a good step by creating a profile for yourself on this site, which I believe is a good starting point for you.
The first thing I would suggest is for you to do some work on building yourself a strong profile. Somewhere on the site there is a free-of-charge video that explains the basics of creating a strong profile for yourself. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the link for you this evening, but you could always drop a line to support and ask them for the link. If I find it in the meantime, I'll let you know.
In short, the technique is to present yourself to potential clients as a serious professional translator via your profile. My profile is far from the best one on this site, but it does attract potential new clients very regularly, and has done for many years. You mention that you "have a degree in the subject", but it's not clear to me from your post whether the qualification you mention is in Mandarin or in translation. You could use the "Bio" section at the bottom to give potential clients some more details about your background as a linguist, for example. You need to try to add as much information as possible about your language skills, and anything else that might be relevant to your profile as a translator. If you do have a translation qualification, or indeed any language qualifications, you could mention them. You might also want to say why you want to be a translator - what attracts you to the profession?
Also, without wanting to sound rude - your profile photo is great, except that you look more like a tourist on it than a professional translator. So, that probably does sound rude, but that is not my intention. Why not see if you can arrange to have a more professional-looking profile photo?
Of course, it's easy for people who have been earning a living as freelance translators for years, but it was not always thus in my case, I can promise you. I started with a PC and an internet connection. We all start somewhere.
You may also want to consider a paid membership of this site. The reason I say that is not because I have shares in the business, but that I believe clients consider paying members to be the real professionals, and so therefore they would presumably be more likely to contact you, and also, hopefully, to offer you professional rates.
I would also ask you, again without meaning to be rude - do you really want to be a translator? Is it really your dream, or is it simply a way of making an income until something better comes along? Only you know, but I think you are more likely to be successful if you are serious about translation and would really rather translate than do any other job - until you retire.
I hope I've given you some food for thought at the very least!
Good luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pricing situation | Apr 8, 2022 |
The pricing situation you describe looks very typical for your pair, as opposed to translation between two first-world languages, and can be easily explained: the low prices offered to you come from the Chinese market, where the prevailing attitude to quality is relatively lax and most Mandarin-English translations are done by native speakers of Mandarin who can afford to undersell you. Conversely, if you manage to find a quality-discriminating client who wants native English and familiarity wit... See more The pricing situation you describe looks very typical for your pair, as opposed to translation between two first-world languages, and can be easily explained: the low prices offered to you come from the Chinese market, where the prevailing attitude to quality is relatively lax and most Mandarin-English translations are done by native speakers of Mandarin who can afford to undersell you. Conversely, if you manage to find a quality-discriminating client who wants native English and familiarity with the realia of the anglophone world, you will get the prices you expected. Maybe you ought to choose a subject field where the proportion of such clients is high. Finance/economics is probably neither the best choice nor the worst one. ▲ Collapse
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 02:49
Japanese to English
+ ...
Neil, as they say, I feel your pain.
I now barely make a living translating Russian, Japanese and Chinese.
I translated a Russian text on nuclear physics when I was 17 and just finished translation of a Russian medical text on Diagnostics of Allergy and Blood Neutrophils. Despite this trio of languages, I find it difficult to make a living. My knowledge of Japanese is informed by five years of Chinese (modern and Classical). A knowledge of Chinese is essential for a translator of Jap... See more Neil, as they say, I feel your pain.
I now barely make a living translating Russian, Japanese and Chinese.
I translated a Russian text on nuclear physics when I was 17 and just finished translation of a Russian medical text on Diagnostics of Allergy and Blood Neutrophils. Despite this trio of languages, I find it difficult to make a living. My knowledge of Japanese is informed by five years of Chinese (modern and Classical). A knowledge of Chinese is essential for a translator of Japanese. Just as a knowledge of Greek and Latin used to be the sign of an educated person. There is absolutely no future in Chinese translation. This is not a scare tactic but rather a valid assessment. Much of the market for Chinese translation is tied up in China-based (or Hong Kong, or Taiwan or Singapore) agencies that pay a pittance. They have absolutely no respect for Western translators with a superb knowledge of Chinese. I recently bid $0.05 /word for a Chinese patent and was told "limited budget". I quoted $0.03/word for revision of a long medical translation from Chinese into English and got no response. Then there are the vagaries of payment. It took six months to get paid for the last translation I did for a Shanghai-based agency. I think that if one were Chinese, the pay would be better. This is a bias I sometimes run into in Japanese translation. There are a number of Japanese-owned translation agencies located in the US that refuse to hire non-Japanese translators. Either they do not believe that a non-Japanese could adequately translate a text or they are a bit miffed that a translator with degrees from Harvard and the University of Tokyo has the chutzpah to "wonder into Japanese space". They would rather have a so-so job done by a Japanese than an excellent job done by a "foreigner". I run up against this all the time. I am used to it. So, rates for Chinese will never get better. So my advise to you, Neil, is FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO. I am lucky that I have a background in equity analysis on Wall Street and past few years have qualified of certificates in M&A and hedge funds. I am currently looking for a finance position in New York and given my background and my gumption, will eventually find one. I am not happy about having to move to New York with its crime, but at least it is a way out. Neil, try an MBA program. There are many MBA programs on-line. While you are still translating and maybe pursuing an MBA, develop a competency in Chinese finance. This will make you very employable to a number of companies. Western companies have dug into China for the long term and I am sure you will have a place there. Good luck! ▲ Collapse
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Out of the frying pan into the fire. I’ve been saying the sky is falling for the past ten years, but it’s like shouting into the void. You’re attempting to join a dying industry. My advice to anyone on here trying to become a translator or asking about studying translation at university is: don’t. For my own part, I’ve been freelancing for over 25 years so I hope to be one of the last few standing. Fortunately for you, there are plenty of people here who will dismiss my doom-mongering,... See more Out of the frying pan into the fire. I’ve been saying the sky is falling for the past ten years, but it’s like shouting into the void. You’re attempting to join a dying industry. My advice to anyone on here trying to become a translator or asking about studying translation at university is: don’t. For my own part, I’ve been freelancing for over 25 years so I hope to be one of the last few standing. Fortunately for you, there are plenty of people here who will dismiss my doom-mongering, so don’t think all is lost.
[Edited at 2022-04-08 02:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I wish you all the best.
Yes, it is possible. Actually, everything is possible.
You may miss some life quality but you will do it.
Also, minimalism is awesome.
I was rich, poor and now middle class. The most important thing is to do what you love and to spend free time with awesome friends.
You can skip luxury, we don't need this kind of useless stuff.
Cheers
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 08:49
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| If you can afford it | Apr 8, 2022 |
Hi Neil,
perhaps you might have to settle for such a low rate until you have established yourself in the industry. Then you can look for new clients and refuse such low rates. It's not a good way to get started. Perhaps it's better to work for a NGO customer.
Speaking of low rates, you were offered USD 0.01 per word. I just saw a job offer that stated the following rate, €0.01 EUR to €1.20 EUR per audio minute. The equivalent is approximately USD 0.0085 to USD 1.307... See more Hi Neil,
perhaps you might have to settle for such a low rate until you have established yourself in the industry. Then you can look for new clients and refuse such low rates. It's not a good way to get started. Perhaps it's better to work for a NGO customer.
Speaking of low rates, you were offered USD 0.01 per word. I just saw a job offer that stated the following rate, €0.01 EUR to €1.20 EUR per audio minute. The equivalent is approximately USD 0.0085 to USD 1.307. An audio minute can contain up to 210+ words. Based on the highest offer, this renders a meager USD 0.0062 per word. ▲ Collapse
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 02:49
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Thayenga wrote:
Speaking of low rates, you were offered USD 0.01 per word. I just saw a job offer that stated the following rate, €0.01 EUR to €1.20 EUR per audio minute. The equivalent is approximately USD 0.0085 to USD 1.307. An audio minute can contain up to 210+ words. Based on the highest offer, this renders a meager USD 0.0062 per word.
I think those offers are just jokes. Anyone willing to work on those rates wouldn't produce a text any better than one generated with Google Translate. An agency hiring translators willing to work on those rates is not serious, to say the least, and their clients could suffer from the very low quality of the translations they create.
[Edited at 2022-04-08 16:46 GMT]
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OP: You might do better focusing on your European languages. Chinese may well be more of a challenge. But anything is possible if you can find people who want something special and you are capable of delivering it.
Certainly do not ever think that ProZ rates are typical of the real world. The job board is just an upmarket Fiver. Clients who pay decent rates normally place work directly with their pet translators and not dream of coming on here.
Michael Newton wrote:
I now barely make a living translating Russian, Japanese and Chinese.
It beats me how someone with a background in finance and good Japanese can't make a living as a translator. Or just play the markets.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:49
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| I have my doubts | Apr 8, 2022 |
Neil Corrigan wrote:
Is this all my 20 years of diligent study can afford me? I have a wife and three children to feed, so I need a living wage.
As a fellow sole breadwinner with a family I do sympathise, but 20 years of diligent study in any subject are worth - in professional terms - only what you can convince the market they are worth.
To be blunt, I've never been tempted by the CN-EN pair myself. Based on my limited experience I have assumed that there are too many native Chinese who are excellent speakers of English, and too many native speakers of English of Chinese extraction/ethnicity with excellent Chinese skills. That's a lot of competition. Perhaps most importantly, China has traditionally had relatively little intellectual capital that requires high-quality translations from Chinese to English. (Others who work in the pair will no doubt correct me if I am wrong.)
I would imagine French or Italian would be better bets if you can leverage whatever you did pre-covid to help your translation career. As discussed ad nauseum in many threads on these forums, it would be wise to develop and heavily emphasize some kind of specialization.
Stacking shelves at Tesco - and I don't say that slightingly - may be more rewarding in the short term, at least while you build your translation career.
Dan
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:49
Serbian to English
+ ...
| Take a broader view | Apr 11, 2022 |
You haven't put much in your profile about yourself, so I can offer only a general suggestion.
Translating is not the only profession (notice I didn't say "job") where your knowledge of languages combined your your past experience could be an asset.
Try to find a niche you are good at (preferably with not much competition), in translating or in something else, and your chances of good results should start improving noticeably.
If your Chinese is good... See more You haven't put much in your profile about yourself, so I can offer only a general suggestion.
Translating is not the only profession (notice I didn't say "job") where your knowledge of languages combined your your past experience could be an asset.
Try to find a niche you are good at (preferably with not much competition), in translating or in something else, and your chances of good results should start improving noticeably.
If your Chinese is good enough to deal directly with Chinese businesses, you have no need for Chinese translation agencies, nor are you limited to translating. ▲ Collapse
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Brian Joyce
United Kingdom
Member (2022)
French to English
| Bless us all Saint Jerome. | Apr 11, 2022 |
Hey you's guys!!!!!
Hi Niel. I want to start by saying how it saddens me that a man of such learning, as yourself, has come to the idea that said learning was a waste of time. Well, the universities around the world are in for a shock. Let us just reflect for a moment on the vast industry that is the education of language and translation. What are they telling them? That it's all a waste of time, that A.I is about to render the human race obsolete, starting with translators. Translation i... See more Hey you's guys!!!!!
Hi Niel. I want to start by saying how it saddens me that a man of such learning, as yourself, has come to the idea that said learning was a waste of time. Well, the universities around the world are in for a shock. Let us just reflect for a moment on the vast industry that is the education of language and translation. What are they telling them? That it's all a waste of time, that A.I is about to render the human race obsolete, starting with translators. Translation is an ancient profession, and since the dawn of time translators have faced suspicion, for having a foot in both camps.
(http://www.translorial.com/reference/a-brief-history-of-interpretation-and-translation/)
All I can tell you is what you will hear a lot of, specialise. I managed to find a little niche with the bible, as I have a great deal of bible learning behind me (I'm no Emmanuelle Levinas, but I do OK). At the end of the day; between how many can do what you do, and how many need it done, there will always be the unknown. But as I said, translation is an ancient profession. ▲ Collapse
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Neil Corrigan wrote:
Hello,
I run a business, or rather, I ran one until Covid destroyed my business. Now I'm trying to draw on my almost 20 years of experience with Mandarin to launch into a new career- translation. I have a degree in Chinese (modern and classical) and have done odd translation jobs here and there. I'm currently teaching myself finance and economics so I can specialise, but right now I can only translate general texts. I've had a few offers, but they are incredibly low, such as 0.01 US per Chinese-English word. Is this normal? I've looked around and the going rate seems to be much more reasonable (0.25-0.3 US/word); why am I being offered 0.01/word? Is this all my 20 years of diligent study can afford me? I have a wife and three children to feed, so I need a living wage.
Any suggestions would be extremely welcome
Neil
[Edited at 2022-04-08 06:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-04-09 10:20 GMT]
Your ProZ profile is empty and your LinkedIn profile is similar. As far as I can tell, you don't have a website. How are you marketing yourself?
Clients don't care about your years of diligent study, they care about what you can do for them. You need to make a strong case for yourself because it's a tough market with lots of competition.
Have you thought about taking the ITI's Setting Up as a Freelance Translator course? https://www.iti.org.uk/discover/iti-training-courses/setting-up-as-a-freelance-translator.html
| | | | cherrypick
China
Local time: 14:49
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 0.02~0.03$ is not so rare. I think. | Apr 15, 2022 |
Hi,
I'm a native Chinese speaker and I've been searching for part time job for sometimes. And I notice there're a lot of China companies (also in proz) who want native English speaker to translate Chinese into English. And the rate is decent I think. Everytime I saw post like that I wish I'm a native English speaker because the rate is higher than native Chinese speaker who translates Chinese English language pair. So actually, I think native English speaker for Chinese translation c... See more Hi,
I'm a native Chinese speaker and I've been searching for part time job for sometimes. And I notice there're a lot of China companies (also in proz) who want native English speaker to translate Chinese into English. And the rate is decent I think. Everytime I saw post like that I wish I'm a native English speaker because the rate is higher than native Chinese speaker who translates Chinese English language pair. So actually, I think native English speaker for Chinese translation could be an advantage in some aspects. There are also Chinese company hiring native English speaker for voice over/transcription service, I think.
Because there is a lot of competition, the rate is quite low. It's true. Those companies who offer ridiculous rate I think it's because they are doing projects for other company. But I think there should still be chance. And I also see a company in US hiring Chinese interpreter and they say they only want people from US or Canada.
BR,
Ano ▲ Collapse
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