| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | When an end client simply "prefers" other words! Thread poster: Rebecca Lyne
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Quite often find that, at the back of it, is a non-native speaker who is 'comfortable' with certain terms and not with others.
I just point out that they are synonyms, the meaning is the same, and I'll bear it in mind next time. Sometimes there is a next time, sometimes not.
Forgive me - where does it say they are not paying?
As far as I can tell, Astrid was the first to mention it.
Her experience is plainly vastly different from mine.
However, the c... See more Quite often find that, at the back of it, is a non-native speaker who is 'comfortable' with certain terms and not with others.
I just point out that they are synonyms, the meaning is the same, and I'll bear it in mind next time. Sometimes there is a next time, sometimes not.
Forgive me - where does it say they are not paying?
As far as I can tell, Astrid was the first to mention it.
Her experience is plainly vastly different from mine.
However, the customer, like the referee, is always right, even when they are not ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The view from the other side | May 22, 2008 |
Once I was asked to proofread a translation by a non-native to my native language, with track changes on. Maybe I used more than my share of red paint, and the PM kinda freaked out. He asked me if my changes were:
a) typos/grammar mistakes
b) style
c) personal preference.
There were just a few of (a), which is unforgivable. Some (b), where the translation was less clear than the original text. But there was a lot of (c), however it was not my personal prefer... See more Once I was asked to proofread a translation by a non-native to my native language, with track changes on. Maybe I used more than my share of red paint, and the PM kinda freaked out. He asked me if my changes were:
a) typos/grammar mistakes
b) style
c) personal preference.
There were just a few of (a), which is unforgivable. Some (b), where the translation was less clear than the original text. But there was a lot of (c), however it was not my personal preference, but the end client's instead. As the end client was a worlwide-known company, I took the trouble to go to their local web site, to look how they liked to give their message, what kind of wording they used. The translations there were quite decent, visibly not machine translation, but the work of competent colleagues instead. So I learned their preferences, and implemented them so that translation wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb, the ugly duckling, whatever.
I don't know, and shouldn't care, if that translator had been advised to look at the client's web site. Before I started the very first translation in my life, my boss, director of englineering, told me: "You should know that we have named several things here, creating a company jargon. When in doubt, ask anyone in the department, they'll tell you. Just be aware that if, by any unfortunate chain of events, you ever wind up working for our competition, the first thing to do is to forget our company lingo, and learn theirs."
So it's often good to read something from the company you will be translating for, in the target language, just to catch their spirit. A couple of paragraphs should be enough. That's what a rock musician would do, if invited to play together with a symphony orchestra.
Nevertheless, there is no reason here to change the agreed payment in any way. If the client is "not happy", either with the translation itself or the domestic fight they had immediately before reading it, no change in payment is justifiable. If they don't like it, they should bite the bullet, pay the translator in full and on time, and next time get one whose work they like. If there are any technically justifiable flaws, that translator should have a chance to fix them ASAP, at no additional charge.
My 2¢. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Fulton 
United States
Local time: 11:28
German to English
| Is the client genuinely unhappy or is the agency exaggerating? | May 22, 2008 |
rebeccalyne wrote:
I have a situation in which I translated a document for an agency. The client has come back to the agency saying they were not happy with the translation.
You may wish to ascertain how really unhappy the end client is. Sometimes agencies view anything short of effusive praise as an indication of unhappiness. Only yesterday I received a message from an agency that the client was "extremely unhappy" with a large document that had been translated by a group of translators (part of an ongoing project). Of the 6 main issues raised by the client, 3 had to do with problems that existed in the original document (text and illustrations not being on the same page, etc.), one had to do with non-inclusion of changes that were submitted after the document was translated. I suspect these were things the client wanted to see fixed in the translated document -- probably a legitimate request, but certainly not a cause of unhappiness with the translation. Another complaint was the use of client-supplied terminology (used unambiguously in dozens of previous documents) -- they didn't like their own terminology. The last had to do with a genuine error produced by the translator (we're talking about 1 single error in 400 pages of text!). I don't know whether the end client was genuinely upset, but it took me a while to calm down after reviewing the comments.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Before I started the very first translation in my life, my boss, director of englineering, told me: "You should know that we have named several things here, creating a company jargon. When in doubt, ask anyone in the department, they'll tell you. Just be aware that if, by any unfortunate chain of events, you ever wind up working for our competition, the first thing to do is to forget our company lingo, and learn theirs."
So it's often good to read something from the company you will be translating for, in the target language, just to catch their spirit. A couple of paragraphs should be enough. That's what a rock musician would do, if invited to play together with a symphony orchestra.
Your 2 cents are worth much more than that, José Henrique,
A very valuable piece of advise, indeed. Thank you.
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| Not wisdom, but my mission | May 22, 2008 |
Walter Landesman wrote:
Your 2 cents are worth much more than that, José Henrique.
Walter, though you are a colleague, not a client, and thank goodness the amount involved is most often different, part of my mission statement as a professional is to have every client of mine say - or at least think - that upon paying.
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 09:28
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Not mistakes | May 22, 2008 |
If your client pays, then preserve your client proposals BUT save their e-mail so they won't change (again) words in the following projects. This way, you'll back a possible argumentation in the future.
Fortunately, your words are not mistakes. It's just they prefer to use another words. So be it. Some years ago I was translating an Eng>Spa patent. I had to translate "interfaces" and in that moment I used to translate it as "interfaz" but they told me to translate it as "interfa... See more If your client pays, then preserve your client proposals BUT save their e-mail so they won't change (again) words in the following projects. This way, you'll back a possible argumentation in the future.
Fortunately, your words are not mistakes. It's just they prefer to use another words. So be it. Some years ago I was translating an Eng>Spa patent. I had to translate "interfaces" and in that moment I used to translate it as "interfaz" but they told me to translate it as "interfase". Since 2000, I translate that word as they suggested me, when working for them. For the rest, I use "interfaz". ▲ Collapse
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Thank you all for your most helpful feedback.
Just thought I would update you on the outcome.
I followed some of the good advice on this matter and responded thus to the agency. I did not hear back for days.
I have just heard back and although they had to admit that the issue at hand was that of word choice and preference, they informed me that they would be reducing my fee by 50%. The final excuse was that is did not read "smooth enough". So much for being... See more Thank you all for your most helpful feedback.
Just thought I would update you on the outcome.
I followed some of the good advice on this matter and responded thus to the agency. I did not hear back for days.
I have just heard back and although they had to admit that the issue at hand was that of word choice and preference, they informed me that they would be reducing my fee by 50%. The final excuse was that is did not read "smooth enough". So much for being a native speaker! LOL!
You know, can anyone in this industry be trusted? They bargain us down to pennies in the first place and then reduce our fees even further just to pad their profit margins.
What recourse do we have? They have us trapped when it come to working via the Internet particularly. I will be posting on the BlueBoard, but at the end of the day, does that really matter?
I am all for forming a translators consortium. Everyone would retain their independent status as freelancers yet it could leverage our power against corrupt agencies and customers making it increasingly difficult for them to conduct business this way. Proz can't do that. They are a for profit enterprise and I would not expect them to promote that idea or even consider it.
I imagine this has been suggested before? Does anyone know any history on that?
Thanks again to everyone. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not a happy ending | May 27, 2008 |
rebeccalyne wrote:
I have just heard back and although they had to admit that the issue at hand was that of word choice and preference, they informed me that they would be reducing my fee by 50%. The final excuse was that is did not read "smooth enough". So much for being a native speaker! LOL!
Please tell them with my compliments that they are crooks! Try pulling that on a restaurant. When they bring your check, try telling them you'll pay only 50% because the steak was not "tender enough". If you don't, you'll soon get to know what kind of uniform the local police uses.
What recourse do we have? They have us trapped when it come to working via the Internet particularly. I will be posting on the BlueBoard, but at the end of the day, does that really matter?
Sometimes it does. When I smell a rat on the BB, and they sound desperate enough for high quality, short turnaround, and my specialty, I do two things, namely: a) raise my rate 20%; and b) demand 50% in advance. This is my way to avoid being conned and teaching them a lesson. (Of course I don't get the job, but I wouldn't get the money anyway, so I just don't waste time doing it.)
I am all for forming a translators consortium. Everyone would retain their independent status as freelancers yet it could leverage our power against corrupt agencies and customers making it increasingly difficult for them to conduct business this way. Proz can't do that. They are a for profit enterprise and I would not expect them to promote that idea or even consider it.
Been there, haven't done that because it didn't come up, ever. The cost of maintaining the consortium (or whatever) increases the rates beyond what the market can afford. Even if it works, the consortium "leaders" or "managers" take all the juicy jobs, and the associated common mortals get the leftovers.
The only way I see is for each one to build a fame, get known for what s/he's really good at. Whoever wants a good job will look them up, and pay what it's worth. Those who just want anything done as cheaply as possible will stay away, which is what anyone known as good really wants.
The answer is Just say no! ... not only to rates you consider below your ability, but also to jobs that are beyond your competence.
Too many translators blame agencies for low rates. There are agencies of all colors and shades... the good, the bad, and the ugly. The good ones - and they do exist - know your specialty, ask you about your rates, and sell your work to their clients. The bad ones want you to do anything for their low rates, or even less. And the ugly ones often use a lot of make-up; after you've done your job, they remove it, and tell you your work is not worth what they had promised to pay for it.
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| You made me laugh! :-)) | May 27, 2008 |
... And the ugly ones often use a lot of make-up;...
You brightened my day with that line Jose!
Thanks for your good advice and good cheer!
Best,
Rebecca
| | | | | My good deed of the day | May 27, 2008 |
rebeccalyne wrote: ... And the ugly ones often use a lot of make-up;... You brightened my day with that line Jose!
It comes from a classmate of mine in the university. He had begun dating (what everybody thought that was) a beautiful girl. One day he arrived too early to pick her up, and caught her fresh out of the shower, wrapped in a towel. His involuntary gasp was so noticeable that the whole affair ended right there.
| | | | | It depends on what the translation is for | Jun 5, 2008 |
I've known translators that have sworn off doing PR and marketing material for clients because often the client that requests the translation sends the translation to offices abroad. The foreign office then tears the translation apart because (1) they don't look at the source and (2) they don't find all their jargon they're used to and blame the translator.
This type of material should really be rewritten in the foreign language, and the translation should serve for informational p... See more I've known translators that have sworn off doing PR and marketing material for clients because often the client that requests the translation sends the translation to offices abroad. The foreign office then tears the translation apart because (1) they don't look at the source and (2) they don't find all their jargon they're used to and blame the translator.
This type of material should really be rewritten in the foreign language, and the translation should serve for informational purposes only. However, often an agency doesn't realize this (or is unwilling to bring it up) and does not tell the end client that without input, the translation will still need help at the end.
Now, for legal translations on the other hand, clients sometimes want to change a translation not for stylistic reasons but to bend the nuance in a certain direction. The translator here is tethered to the source text but should listen to the client and make changes only where it improves the accuracy.
Glenn Cain
[Edited at 2008-06-05 21:56] ▲ Collapse
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Glenn Cain wrote:
...PR and marketing material for clients because often the client that requests the translation sends the translation to offices abroad. The foreign office then tears the translation apart because (1) they don't look at the source and (2) they don't find all their jargon they're used to and blame the translator.
This type of material should really be rewritten in the foreign language, and the translation should serve for informational purposes only...
Yes!
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