| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | How much responsibility do you accept for a proofread text? Thread poster: Phil Hand
|
|---|
Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 05:57
Chinese to English
I very rarely accept proofreading tasks, so I haven't really thought about this before. But what share of the responsibility for the content of a translation lies with the proofreader?
In my pair, I never get to work with a good partner, so proofreading is always disaster relief (was it Robert who coined that?). If I spend a couple of hours on a text, and make it just about readable/acceptable, then am I responsible for it?
In practical terms, I'm the only person who ca... See more I very rarely accept proofreading tasks, so I haven't really thought about this before. But what share of the responsibility for the content of a translation lies with the proofreader?
In my pair, I never get to work with a good partner, so proofreading is always disaster relief (was it Robert who coined that?). If I spend a couple of hours on a text, and make it just about readable/acceptable, then am I responsible for it?
In practical terms, I'm the only person who can take responsibility, because 9 times out of 10 the original translator is not competent. But I would hate an outsourcer to turn round and say, there's an error in this text, it's your fault.
Those who do a lot of proofreading, how do you feel about this? Do you specify your level of responsibility in a contract? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 23:57
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| "Plain" proofreading | Jul 4, 2012 |
If the outsourcer wants you to "just/only" proofread, then your responsibility includes all spelling mistakes, including typos, gramma and punctuation mistakes.
If there is a severe translation mistake, then you should, of course, inform your client. The correction of such an error, perhaps involving several sentences - errors are usually followed through with an amazing continuity - does not fall within your responsibilities.
| | | | Peter Linton (X)
Local time: 22:57
Swedish to English
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote:
what share of the responsibility for the content of a translation lies with the proofreader?
100%. You are the last link in the chain – where the buck stops. Otherwise, what is the point of engaging a proofreader?
The only possible loophole is that strictly speaking, proofreading does not include comparing the text with the original. But many customers actually want you to review or revise, "turn it into good English", even though they call it proofreading.
Do you specify your level of responsibility in a contract?
Yes, essential. Perhaps not an actual contract, but you should clearly state what service you are offering before accepting the job. Particularly for a bad translation.
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 05:57
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | That makes proofreading impossible | Jul 4, 2012 |
If it's really 100%, then I can't understand how anyone can proofread. In order for me to be as close to 100% sure as I can be, I'd have to translate the text myself.
Proofreading gets paid what? 1/4 or 1/3, maybe 1/2 of translation rates? If I'm supposed to be taking 100% responsibility for the content, how am I supposed to save 1/2-3/4 of the time?
| | |
|
|
|
Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Where does that leave the translator? | Jul 4, 2012 |
Peter Linton wrote:
100%. You are the last link in the chain – where the buck stops. Otherwise, what is the point of engaging a proofreader?
That would imply that the translator is relieved of all responsibility whatsoever, which doesn't sound right to me.
| | | | Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 22:57
Phil Hand wrote:
If it's really 100%, then I can't understand how anyone can proofread. In order for me to be as close to 100% sure as I can be, I'd have to translate the text myself.
Proofreading gets paid what? 1/4 or 1/3, maybe 1/2 of translation rates? If I'm supposed to be taking 100% responsibility for the content, how am I supposed to save 1/2-3/4 of the time?
Good point, Phil. I do not know the answer to that question. Most of the "revision" I do involves fixing some translation error or omission somewhere in the text. I have never had anyone come back to me with complaints about my "proofreading" of translated texts, so must assume the work is done to satisfaction.
Another question: Are you sure you are the last person in the chain?
Proofread, and corrected. Looks like I need a proofreader for untranslated texts.
[Edited at 2012-07-04 18:28 GMT]
| | | | | I agree with Peter | Jul 4, 2012 |
100%. If the translation is really bad in your opinion, you should reject the job, or offer to redo it, if you are a translator in that language pair, not just an editor, or proofreader.
If the translation is really bad, the translator may be required to return most of the fee, or perhaps he gets paid after the proofreading is completed.
[Edited at 2012-07-04 18:38 GMT]
| | | | | There I people I refuse to proofread for | Jul 4, 2012 |
There are a couple of agencies I translate for, but do not have time to proofread for.
I literally do not have time to do what they ask in the time they will pay for, and it is as simple as that. The quality of the translation calls for revision and correction rather than simple proofreading, and then I find myself checking everything just to be really sure... and like Phil, I feel I would rather translate from scratch myself.
A couple of others send the text with track... See more There are a couple of agencies I translate for, but do not have time to proofread for.
I literally do not have time to do what they ask in the time they will pay for, and it is as simple as that. The quality of the translation calls for revision and correction rather than simple proofreading, and then I find myself checking everything just to be really sure... and like Phil, I feel I would rather translate from scratch myself.
A couple of others send the text with tracked changes back to the translator, who has the final say. I like translating for them too, because the feedback is useful, and sometimes there are helpful improvements, even if my version was not actually wrong.
At the agency where I worked in house, the policy was that the translator was responsible for terminology, and proofreading was proofreading, not extensive editing. We were encouraged to call the translator and explain the changes after proofreading.
I learnt a great deal from that!
It does depend what the agreement with the client is - with one or two it varies from job to job, depending on who wrote or translated the text, and how much editing it needs. But I do normally take the responsibility for seeing that the text is error free and fit for purpose, or else I refuse to take on the job at all. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 14:57
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote:
In order for me to be as close to 100% sure as I can be, I'd have to translate the text myself.
Sometimes a "proofreading" request is actually a request for translation - translating from a non-native version of the target language to a native version of the target language. I do not accept those jobs. I prefer to translate from my source languages.
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 23:57
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| I take full responsibility for anything I have proofread | Jul 4, 2012 |
I’m a former copywriter and I still take full responsibility, only limited by my General Agreement, for anything I have proofread. I really mean it when I stamp a document with “bon à tirer” or “good to print”.
But, nowadays, as we all know, proofreading can mean anything from proofing, revising, retranslating, post-MT or post-TM editing to major SOS. Translating 2,000 words will take me 8 hours, while “proofreading” 2,000 words could take me anything from 2.5 hours t... See more I’m a former copywriter and I still take full responsibility, only limited by my General Agreement, for anything I have proofread. I really mean it when I stamp a document with “bon à tirer” or “good to print”.
But, nowadays, as we all know, proofreading can mean anything from proofing, revising, retranslating, post-MT or post-TM editing to major SOS. Translating 2,000 words will take me 8 hours, while “proofreading” 2,000 words could take me anything from 2.5 hours to 2 days. That’s why I don’t accept proofreading jobs from customers I don’t know.
Only 10 years ago - do you hear, all you new Project Managers - proofreading was the last phase before publishing a document. Currently, proofreading often means: be part of our incredibly-easy-to-use online quality system and earn 20 euro per hour to become fully liable for the end result we’re presenting to our client.
When the chips are down, proofreading is a skill that requires only the target text. Any professional delivering additional services, like post-editing MT or amateur translations, should defy the current digital system of “translation” and “all the rest”. And no professional should take any responsibility for anything published unless he or she can be held responsible.
In the text above I tried to describe how “proofreading” within the last ten years became a term to describe almost any post-translation process step. We, the people who are responsible for the texts that are published, should feel responsible for the work we do, but only if we can.
I work for one, British, agency where they think like me. They’ll pay me a third of my translation fee to confirm that their steady into-Dutch translator, once again, has made zero mistakes and that the PDF can be sent to the printers.
Cheers,
Gerard ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 05:57
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Sounds blissful | Jul 5, 2012 |
Gerard wrote:
They’ll pay me a third of my translation fee to confirm that their steady into-Dutch translator, once again, has made zero mistakes and that the PDF can be sent to the printers.
That sound's like the way proofreading has to work. You have to know and trust the translator, so you're confident that any terms, proper names, constructions the translator uses are correct. Otherwise, you have to go and spend the time checking them yourself, and that eats the time.
In this last job I had, the translator had failed to translate the name of a bank correctly. It's a 0.5s Google operation to check. That kind of shoddiness means that I cannot trust literally anything the translator writes, and I have to go through (a) the text and (b) their badly written translation with a fine tooth comb, checking literally every word. It's more work than translation.
Gerard wrote:
while “proofreading” 2,000 words could take me anything from 2.5 hours to 2 days.
And the difficulty of finding two competent translators in my pair means that if the text would take 2.5 hours, the agencies often don't bother, or just give it to a monolingual proofreader. The review cases I see are always the 2 days kind.
Christine wrote:
But I do normally take the responsibility for seeing that the text is error free and fit for purpose, or else I refuse to take on the job at all.
That sounds fair, and I should stick to it. It was just that on this last job, the agency begged. But then they pestered me to complete the proofreading in X hours, when it really needed 3X hours.
With proofreading, you can have a fixed quality target, or you can have a fixed budget. But you can't have both.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:57
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote:
I very rarely accept proofreading tasks, so I haven't really thought about this before. But what share of the responsibility for the content of a translation lies with the proofreader?
That depends on your country's laws. Are you liable only if the client can show negligence, or are you liable when the client can show error?
From your description of "proofreading" I gather you mean editing (though I and most of my clients do call it "proofreading").
I think all good clients know and accept that the less time you spend on a job, the more likely it is that you will miss certain things. This is why the editor has to be ideally someone who does editing for a living (not as a side-line). An editor will find more errors in 1 hour than a translator. Sometimes clients prefer to use a translator because they know him and trust him, but it must be stated without fear that a translator will find fewer errors than an editor.
There are those who say "100%", but that can only be achieved if you have an unlimited budget, no deadline, and full control over the process. If the client says "here's 2000 words, we pay for 2 hours" then you can't spend 10 hours on it, and then the client simply has to realise (or be made aware of it) that only the most highly visible errors will be caught.
If you get a text and you see immediately that it is a disaster, but you only have 2 hours for 2000 words (and the client says "no, that is our budget"), then you have to prioritise what you're going to fix. And that is when a true editor will be able to fix much much more than a mere translator.
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:57
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Disagree with Gerard (in theory only) | Jul 5, 2012 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
When the chips are down, proofreading is a skill that requires only the target text.
In other words, you're saying that the translator should not make a translation mistake but is allowed to make writing mistakes (which the proofreader then fix)? My take on this is that if the translator can't be trusted not to make any writing mistakes, how can he be trusted not to make any translation mistakes?
| | | | | The original translator should retain the entire responsibility | Jul 5, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
Those who do a lot of proofreading, how do you feel about this? Do you specify your level of responsibility in a contract?
In my view the original translator should be made responsible of the reviewed translation also irrespective of the quality of the reviewer corrections, provided of course the these corrections are passed to him. In other words, the original translator should chose whether to accept or reject the reviewer on his entire responsibility. At least this is what I state to the client each time (very few since I don't like reviewing others' translations) I accept an editing job. Otherwise the clients should allow me to redo the entire translation from scratch, this time under my entire responsibility.
But I'm afraid that this view is not shared by many translation companies.
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 05:57
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | This makes sense to me | Jul 5, 2012 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
In other words, the original translator should chose whether to accept or reject the reviewer on his entire responsibility.
What you're describing is a situation in which the proofreader is providing her services to the translator, and is responsible to the translator for whatever they decide between themselves; and the translator is providing services to the client/outsourcer, and is responsible to the outsourcer.
That makes perfect sense, and if the translator finds their own proofreader, there's no problem.
But much of the time it's the outsourcer who finds both the proofreader and the translator, and that's what breaks up this logical pattern. Responsibility could still be assigned the way Mario suggests, but there would have to be contact and trust between the translator and the proofreader, and many outsourcers don't seem to want that to happen.
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » How much responsibility do you accept for a proofread text? | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
