Evaluating a text - a request for your judgement Thread poster: Serge Driamov
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Hello everyone.
A friend of mine who runs a company has asked me to evaluate an e-mail written by his employee. The letter has been written in English and I was supposed to judge about its linguistic quality. I could understand the text only after translating it in my mind into my (and the author's) native language (Russian). However, even using such technique I could not grasp all details and my conclusion was "poor". Now I am thinking: what if my judgement was too severe? Perhaps ... See more Hello everyone.
A friend of mine who runs a company has asked me to evaluate an e-mail written by his employee. The letter has been written in English and I was supposed to judge about its linguistic quality. I could understand the text only after translating it in my mind into my (and the author's) native language (Russian). However, even using such technique I could not grasp all details and my conclusion was "poor". Now I am thinking: what if my judgement was too severe? Perhaps people in such countries like UK or USA are so used to various ways foreigners speak that they can understand and accept much more than I think.
So, now I am asking the community: will somebody have some minutes to look through the text and say whether it is possible to understand? I would be really grateful for any opinion. The text is below. Very many thanks in advance.
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After getting posts focused on ethical aspects I decided to remove the e-mail. All answers to the stated question regarding intelligibility of the text converge, there is no need to leave the text exposed. Many thanks to participants and answerers.
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[Edited at 2012-12-07 20:45 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-12-08 14:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
| Perhaps "Off topic" might be a better forum for this | Dec 7, 2012 |
I'm sure some people will be happy to help, but in the appropriate place.
| | | | F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Local time: 17:54
Dutch to English
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| The letter is quite poor English and most certainly not clear | Dec 7, 2012 |
Dr_Serge, feel free to email me, if as Phil suggests that a different forum would be more appropriate.
| | | | Serge Driamov
Belarus
Local time: 02:54
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER
Phil Hand wrote:
I'm sure some people will be happy to help, but in the appropriate place.
I'll contact moderator to change it to off-topic
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Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:54
Russian to English
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In memoriam | No need to change forum in my opinion | Dec 7, 2012 |
I wouldn't consider a question about the quality of someone's English off-topic. I agree that it is poor English. You obviously think so too, and you should say so, since you are asked. I had difficulty in understanding it too, probably as much as you did. It's technically poor too. He refers to "car axes" when he means "vehicle axles" "Axle" and "axis" are both "ось" in Russian, but they have different meanings in English.
| | | | Serge Driamov
Belarus
Local time: 02:54
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks a lot Jack | Dec 7, 2012 |
Jack Doughty wrote:
I wouldn't consider a question about the quality of someone's English off-topic.
I have already asked moderator to change it to off-topic, now I will request not to do it.:)
The opinion of a native English expert in Russian regarding this text is especially valuable.
| | | | LEXpert
United States
Local time: 18:54
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
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| Smacks of MT to me | Dec 7, 2012 |
The text uses a wide range of vocabulary, but uses it incorrectly, or employs a dictionary definition in the wrong context. The syntax is way off, even bizarre in many spots. People with limited knowledge of syntax (i.e., can correctly write only simple sentences, or cannot write correctly at all) usually have poor vocabulary as well, covering only basic or everyday concepts.
Still, you can just barely get the gist if you think hard enough and have enough knowledge of the source language t... See more The text uses a wide range of vocabulary, but uses it incorrectly, or employs a dictionary definition in the wrong context. The syntax is way off, even bizarre in many spots. People with limited knowledge of syntax (i.e., can correctly write only simple sentences, or cannot write correctly at all) usually have poor vocabulary as well, covering only basic or everyday concepts.
Still, you can just barely get the gist if you think hard enough and have enough knowledge of the source language to know what typically trips up its native speakers when they write in English.
No way to be positive, of course, but IMHO there's a good chance that it's just raw Google Translate output. ▲ Collapse
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 19:54
Russian to English
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| The English is absolutely atrocious, no two ways about it | Dec 7, 2012 |
I can understand most of what is being said, but only by virtue of being able to reconstruct the original Russian wording behind it, just like you did. This might very well be MT as someone has already suggested, which only proves it again that low quality human translation into source language isn't all that much different from MT and is hardly worth even the peanuts such translators are usually paid.
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 07:54
Chinese to English
| Alright, I'll be a bit more direct | Dec 7, 2012 |
What I really meant was this:
Dr Serge, I can understand that this might be something that your friend would like to know. But I personally feel that critiquing someone's language is a bit of a no-no on these forums. Proz forums are mostly in English, and translators from all over the world, most of them not native English speakers, come here and participate very positively. It's really important that they feel welcome, and I don't think that having language nitpickers around is hel... See more What I really meant was this:
Dr Serge, I can understand that this might be something that your friend would like to know. But I personally feel that critiquing someone's language is a bit of a no-no on these forums. Proz forums are mostly in English, and translators from all over the world, most of them not native English speakers, come here and participate very positively. It's really important that they feel welcome, and I don't think that having language nitpickers around is helpful. I chat here in my L2, and I'd hate for people to start commenting on the way I write while I'm trying to have a conversation. So I find judging or criticising anyone's use of language on Proz forums to be in rather poor taste.
Secondly, if you've taken a sample of someone's writing and posted it on a public forum without asking the writer, that's rather disrespectful.
Sorry, but this whole post made me rather uncomfortable. I'll butt out now! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sarah McDowell
Canada
Local time: 18:54
Member (2012)
Russian to English
+ ...
| Not a native speaker of English | Dec 7, 2012 |
This letter is written by someone who is not a native speaker of English. They are typical mistakes that one finds in texts translated from Russian to English.
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Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
Smacks of MT to me
Exactly my thoughts. Smells like Google Translate...
And the text is poor (please note: I am not a native speaker of English). The person who asked seems to need a professional opinion, and I would certainly need the same if I was entrusting business operations to a person who seems to lack an adequate knowledge of English for such work, and who could damage the company's image in the long run or could make a costly mistake during dealings.
| | | | F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Local time: 17:54
Dutch to English
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| Let's remain neutral in our critiques | Dec 7, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
So I find judging or criticising anyone's use of language on Proz forums to be in rather poor taste.
Secondly, if you've taken a sample of someone's writing and posted it on a public forum without asking the writer, that's rather disrespectful.
Sorry, but this whole post made me rather uncomfortable. I'll butt out now!
On the one hand I can understand Phil's comment about critiquing a colleague's use of language.
On the other hand, one should also be able to critique a piece of text on an impersonal level.
On the third hand, one cannot exclude the possibility that said colleague (very much) wishes our insights.
On the fourth hand, maybe a small sample would have been better.
This is all after the fact, and I've simply handled according to the second case. I hope we all do so.
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Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 17:54
Dutch to English
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| It's an editing job | Dec 7, 2012 |
I agree with others that it is not appropriate to have the e-mail critiqued in a Proz forum. If your friend is concerned about the quality (and he should be), it would be best to post this as an editing job for a native English-speaking translator/editor and offer to pay for it.
| | | | Serge Driamov
Belarus
Local time: 02:54
English to Russian
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TOPIC STARTER | Thank you Tina and | Dec 7, 2012 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
I agree with others that it is not appropriate to have the e-mail critiqued in a Proz forum. If your friend is concerned about the quality (and he should be), it would be best to post this as an editing job for a native English-speaking translator/editor and offer to pay for it.
everyone including Phil Hand. After thinking it over I have removed the text of the e-mail from my post.
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I thought there was a forum for critiquing translations, because I remember suggesting it and I think it was implemented. It was for members only. Does it still exist?
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