| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Am I altering the text too much? Thread poster: Tombaroo
|
|---|
Tombaroo
Germany
Local time: 08:16
German to English
Dear all,
I have been working as a part-time translator/proof-reader for about 18 months, but have become fed up with the vagaries (and frankly insultingly poor pay) of agency work so am in the process of applying for in-company positions.
Happily, I have made it through the second stage of an application process and have been given a test translation as well as a text to proof read. The agency for which I typically proof-read has never given me any feedback as to the ... See more Dear all,
I have been working as a part-time translator/proof-reader for about 18 months, but have become fed up with the vagaries (and frankly insultingly poor pay) of agency work so am in the process of applying for in-company positions.
Happily, I have made it through the second stage of an application process and have been given a test translation as well as a text to proof read. The agency for which I typically proof-read has never given me any feedback as to the quality of my work, and whilst I always like to think I do a good job, I worry that my approach may be considered somewhat overzealous by a more scrutinising audience.
My question is this: how far should I go when proof-reading (called 'revising' by the company) a text to make it read (in my eyes at least) more naturally? Should sentences which are technically correct but use vocabulary which I find uncommon / jarring be amended, or even rewritten completely? I feel torn between presenting the best possible text to highlight my abilities to a potential employer, and yet on the other hand risking them thinking I haven't grasped the purpose of the exercise.
Any thoughts would be most appreciated! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 14:16
Chinese to English
| Aim to change as little as possible | Jan 7, 2013 |
The general rule is that you only change something that is a definite error. But error can be understood in a number of ways. For me, if the text has a word in it that is not technically wrong but so jarring that the text can't be read smoothly, that constitutes an error, and I'd change it.
One of the challenges of revising, though, is working out how little you can change and still get a good text out. Sometimes you have to negotiate close choices - I could rewrite this sentence an... See more The general rule is that you only change something that is a definite error. But error can be understood in a number of ways. For me, if the text has a word in it that is not technically wrong but so jarring that the text can't be read smoothly, that constitutes an error, and I'd change it.
One of the challenges of revising, though, is working out how little you can change and still get a good text out. Sometimes you have to negotiate close choices - I could rewrite this sentence and make it good, or swap out two words and make it acceptable; or you suddenly spot a clever way to make a terrible sentence work just by deleting one word... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Just adding... | Jan 7, 2013 |
Dear Tombaroo,
I agree with Phil and I would like to add that it also depends on the agency you're going to work with. I mean, are they picky about the text being as natural as possible after proofreading? Or the opposite, they prefer the text to be nearly untouched in the end.
If you can't, by any means of searching their background or asking them, find the answer to that, my advice is to be cautious and choose a middle ground (at least, until after you are hired when ... See more Dear Tombaroo,
I agree with Phil and I would like to add that it also depends on the agency you're going to work with. I mean, are they picky about the text being as natural as possible after proofreading? Or the opposite, they prefer the text to be nearly untouched in the end.
If you can't, by any means of searching their background or asking them, find the answer to that, my advice is to be cautious and choose a middle ground (at least, until after you are hired when you can do what you think is the right thing with your work).
Best of luck, ▲ Collapse
| | | | Carl Carter
Germany
Local time: 08:16
German to English
+ ...
| Ask your clients for guidelines | Jan 7, 2013 |
Dear Tombaroo (Tom?),
Having read your comments, I'd say the best thing to do is always ask your customers for feedback once you've done some copy-editing for them. Ask them two or three times if necessary, or ask them for some specific guidelines about what to correct and how so you can focus on these points and produce work your clients ought to be satisfied with.
It's easy to go over the top when you edit another translator's work, but if you really feel it's necessa... See more Dear Tombaroo (Tom?),
Having read your comments, I'd say the best thing to do is always ask your customers for feedback once you've done some copy-editing for them. Ask them two or three times if necessary, or ask them for some specific guidelines about what to correct and how so you can focus on these points and produce work your clients ought to be satisfied with.
It's easy to go over the top when you edit another translator's work, but if you really feel it's necessary to rewrite whole sentences (because they've been translated badly), then that's up to you; you're the language expert. In some cases (like marketing and PR copy), you really need to focus on getting the style right, while there are others where this criterion is less important; it depends on the type of text you're dealing with and on what your customer expects you (and their translators) to come up with.
If you edit academic texts written in English, you might want to refer to standard works on writing and editing like the Chicago Manual of Style. These are things you could/should get your customer to agree to as they constitute sets of international guidelines created by experts on writing and can act as a reference point if your customer doesn't have any guidelines of their own.
Incidentally, another factor you need to bear in mind is the time required to make corrections; your customers should be happy with this, too, because if you go into too much detail and take "much too long" for the editing, they may not be happy about the results - neither the changes, nor the size of your bill (especially if they are agencies).
Regards
Carl ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Kay Denney
France
Local time: 08:16
French to English
I would say it depends on the agency's attitude to quality.
The salary is presumably better so that may mean quality is more important to them than at your previous place.
If they have ISO or other certification then that means they at least want to appear to be concerned with quality.
Note that even the worst of agencies will say in their website that quality is important. Nobody ever admits to delivering rubbish. However you can see whether they have ... See more I would say it depends on the agency's attitude to quality.
The salary is presumably better so that may mean quality is more important to them than at your previous place.
If they have ISO or other certification then that means they at least want to appear to be concerned with quality.
Note that even the worst of agencies will say in their website that quality is important. Nobody ever admits to delivering rubbish. However you can see whether they have a thorough QA process (if they provide details, this might give you some clues too).
In your previous job you never got feedback. If you never even got a query in 18 months I would say they didn't care about quality. This potential employer might have higher expectations!
If the text is to be understood by all sorts of people (instructions for consumer goods for example) then certainly uncommon words need to be weeded out. Google them to see just how common they are, sometimes it's a matter of personal preference (I have had more than a few surprises doing this!).
Anything that jars, ditto. Trying saying the sentences out loud to see whether you can say it easily or not. Sometimes you have to make a sentence much longer for it to jar less, which could then be a problem if it's a text that needs to be formatted and printed on paper.
In the agency I used to work at, the texts we would send as a test of proofreading were translations provided by our usual, top-quality translators. We introduced perhaps just a couple of little mistakes such as a brand name spelt two different ways and a sentence that cropped up twice. Some applicants would rewrite - and improve - the entire thing but fail to pick up the silly mistakes. The job was always given to the one who could pick up the most silly mistakes.
Do you have any idea of how long you are expected to take? We used to reckon on proofreading 1,000 words an hour. I usually took much less time than that, 20 minutes for an excellent translation, 30 for a competent translation. If I needed more than an hour then I would stop using that translator.
If you're still in the dark, maybe you could you ask the agency? I always gave extra points to applicants who did, because it meant that they were capable of many things but were anxious to provide us with what we wanted.
Good luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Where the text is already good, don't change it | Jan 7, 2013 |
The art is to acknowledge that different people write differently, and only write your version when it is a clear improvement on the original. Consistent style is important, so changes must fit in.
This is difficult in a test piece, because there will probably be carefully chosen sections that you may or may not want to change. You are right - it will give the wrong impression if you change too much!
Look very carefully at the source - is every shade of meaning transl... See more The art is to acknowledge that different people write differently, and only write your version when it is a clear improvement on the original. Consistent style is important, so changes must fit in.
This is difficult in a test piece, because there will probably be carefully chosen sections that you may or may not want to change. You are right - it will give the wrong impression if you change too much!
Look very carefully at the source - is every shade of meaning translated as closely as possible? You will probably be expected to suggest one or two improvements and find a technical error or two (depending on how long the text is), but not to alter things without good reason.
Explain all the changes you make in the test. (Later on, most changes will be self-explanatory, and typing an explanation will take time that you will not be paid for...)
When I was starting out and my own work was proofread, a colleague taught me always to start by saying briefly what was particularly good about the text, as well as finding the errors.
Later on, when you find one of those rare texts where there is nothing to change, you can show that you HAVE read it by pointing out one or two things that were fine, and then just signing off with 'my compliments to the translator'. Positive feedback is just as important as criticism, and it really warms people's hearts in an isolated job like translating.
Back to the test:
Add a positive comment if you can find something relevant to mention. It shows what you are like as a person too: you know what good translation is, and that you will be a good colleague to collaborate with.
Best of luck!
[Edited at 2013-01-07 11:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tombaroo
Germany
Local time: 08:16
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you for your input | Jan 7, 2013 |
Christine and Phil,
thank you both so much for your replies.
It's becoming clear to me that, in the case of proof-reading, less is definitely more. The last thing I want to do is give the impression that I think I know better than the original translator, which upon reflection, some of my more drastic alterations may well have done.
Thanks again
Tom
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 07:16
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Maybe deliver two texts? | Jan 7, 2013 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
You are right - it will give the wrong impression if you change too much!
Look very carefully at the source - is every shade of meaning translated as closely as possible? You will probably be expected to suggest one or two improvements and find a technical error or two (depending on how long the text is), but not to alter things without good reason.
Explain all the changes you make in the test.
As this is a test, Christine's advice is probably spot on: the text will probably be reasonably good, with a few known imperfections. On the other hand, I'm always careful to find out what clients actually want me to do. With translating, the goal is clear; with proofreading, or whatever the client calls it, it isn't necessarily clear.
I've had jobs where the client has said "please proofread this" where it turns out that they want me to turn it into the best possible text - not just grammar and terminology, but maybe merging or dividing sentences and paragraphs, and rewriting parts to make the text more 'marketing'. On the other hand, sometimes they want to pay as little as possible (agencies, of course, almost always want to do that), so anything more than making the text 'adequate for the purpose' is too much.
So, depending on the exact circumstances, you may think it's a good idea to deliver two texts, with appropriate comments.
| | |
|
|
|
Tatty
Local time: 08:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Forget that it is a test | Jan 7, 2013 |
I think that you are the professional and that you should not be asking the agency or anyone else for advice as to what to do. We all try to deliver the best translations possible, whether we are proofing or translating. So my advice would just be to take the bull by the horns and hand in a revised translation (just one), based on your own professional judgement. If they haven't asked you to justify the changes, then I wouldn't provide any justification personally. I would make all the changes I... See more I think that you are the professional and that you should not be asking the agency or anyone else for advice as to what to do. We all try to deliver the best translations possible, whether we are proofing or translating. So my advice would just be to take the bull by the horns and hand in a revised translation (just one), based on your own professional judgement. If they haven't asked you to justify the changes, then I wouldn't provide any justification personally. I would make all the changes I felt necessary for the purposes of accuracy, style or readability.
Once you have done your version, print it out and read it. Any misspellings or jarring will stand out immediately, don't ignore them.
Good luck to you. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
My own attitude is:
Avoid proofreading jobs if possible.
Alter or adjust as little as possible.
Offer your opinion to the client, especially if quality of the target text is poor.
| | | | | Provide several examples in the text | Jan 7, 2013 |
You could use the comments to highlight parts of the text where you are not sure how to proceed and spell out your doubts and list the different approaches you could use.
In any case, I am sure that communicating your doubts with the agency is the best way to go about this.
Good luck!
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 02:16
Spanish to English
+ ...
| There is a great article about this topic... | Jan 7, 2013 |
...in this month's issue of the ATA Chronicle:
"Do Not Take It Personally! Secrets of Revision"
By Jonathan T. Hine
| | |
|
|
|
| Not my approach! | Jan 7, 2013 |
If you are not happy about proofreading, don't take it on.
As suggested by others, agree with the client on what you are aiming at. There is no single body that dictates what is right and wrong in English. There are systems and authorities, so it is worth getting to know them. For a test, I would use my own 'default' rules, but explain them briefly so that they were open to discussion.
I would not express questions as doubts - you do not want to sound diffident. The pro... See more If you are not happy about proofreading, don't take it on.
As suggested by others, agree with the client on what you are aiming at. There is no single body that dictates what is right and wrong in English. There are systems and authorities, so it is worth getting to know them. For a test, I would use my own 'default' rules, but explain them briefly so that they were open to discussion.
I would not express questions as doubts - you do not want to sound diffident. The proofreader-editor is the last link in the quality chain befor the text 'goes to press' or to the end user, whoever that is. Either refuse to do the job, or make sure you can do it properly.
However, asking about client preferences specifically is quite legitimate. Asking whether they want organise/organize and all those words spelt with s or z, asking about the 'Oxford comma'
http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/what-is-the-oxford-comma
in lists, and whether they use a particular style guide will show that you know what you are talking about.
Look at the client's website, or any other material you can get hold of, to see their preferred style - it may tell you more than their explanations.
It may be an idea to find your own default style guide(s) if you haven't already done so.
I personally refer to Michael Swan's Practical English Usage (Oxford), because many Danes know his book,
and I like Ernest Gowers' Plain Words and the revisions of it (Greenbaum & Whitcut, Penguin)
and the Penguin Guide to Punctuation (R.L. Trask) when in doubt. Trask has a really good section on commas, which I find very useful.
Somebody has to do the proofreading/editing, though not everyone is happy in the role.
It has its positive sides. I enjoy the chance to learn from others. Giving constructive feedback helps professionals to improve. When deadlines are tight, it is much easier to find other people's slips than to catch your own. But it calls for some well-grounded self-confidence (others call it arrogance ). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Endre Both
Germany
Local time: 08:16
English to German
| Ask the client - or consider providing two texts | Jan 8, 2013 |
Tombaroo wrote:
My question is this: how far should I go when proof-reading (called 'revising' by the company) a text to make it read (in my eyes at least) more naturally? Should sentences which are technically correct but use vocabulary which I find uncommon / jarring be amended, or even rewritten completely?
Good questions that, as a general rule, should be clarified with the client before accepting any proofreading/editing/reviewing assignment. When I get an enquiry of this type, the first thing I ask for is a detailed description of the client's expectations.
In your situation, if you cannot enquire about the client's preferences, preparing two texts as Sheila suggested sounds good, provided they are different enough (i.e. only if you are not quite happy with the style of the translation).
Endre
| | | |
The matter is in fact very simple: change whatever is mistaken (for reasons of expected terminology, grammar and spelling rules, accuracy of the translation, tone, etc.), but do not change something because it is just your preference.
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Am I altering the text too much? | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
