| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Help needed regarding a RUSH large editing project Thread poster: Ninon Dion
|
|---|
Ninon Dion 
Canada
Local time: 10:23
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
There's no way just one person did a 40,000 word translation in just 5 days and if they did, they could not possibly have done a good job.
I'm pretty sure that two people would have worked on this because personally, I would struggle slightly to do 40,000 words in 10 days and I work quite quickly.
This means that the agency's expectations of you were probably based on your being more than one person, which you're not.
I don't think it's safe to make any assumptions on the process that has occurred before the work got to you because there's no way you can know unless you ask and assumptions can be very dangerous. I don't know how anyone can possibly be 100% sure of whether or not the document has been proofread without asking the client. The mind boggles.
I believe in managing your client's expectations. This avoids lots of problems down the line.
If the client doesn't get back to you, just let it go. Unless you're "translator by day, superhero by night", there's not much worse than taking something on only to discover that you can't manage.
Merci beaucoup Marie-Hélène.
The client is supposed to get back to me tomorrow; he says he wants to let me know how their agency "work" so we can agree more easily on numbers for future projects. I'm not sure what that means, but I guess I should know soon enough.
For some reasons I keep getting clients that, instead of laying it all out in terms of their needs, prefer to go with the "gimme what you got" tactic... and that often times results in bad situations, like this one.
Seriously, I'm more tired tonight than I would have been working all day on this project. Those back and forth negociations that seems to go nowhere really get to me.
I do appreciate your words of wisdom, thank you again.
| | | | Carl Carter
Germany
Local time: 16:23
German to English
+ ...
| You did the right thing - well done! | Sep 11, 2013 |
Hi Ninon,
I've edited translations using PDF notes a lot of times and I know it's a time-consuming process. Your customer would also have to edit the translation at their end based on the corrections you suggested in your notes, which would also take time and need to be checked by you afterwards to make sure they've got everything right (which they won't have done).
You didn't "blow" anything, by the way - on the contrary, your customer didn't realise how much he was as... See more Hi Ninon,
I've edited translations using PDF notes a lot of times and I know it's a time-consuming process. Your customer would also have to edit the translation at their end based on the corrections you suggested in your notes, which would also take time and need to be checked by you afterwards to make sure they've got everything right (which they won't have done).
You didn't "blow" anything, by the way - on the contrary, your customer didn't realise how much he was asking of you. I don't think any translator/editor would take on a job of that size using PDF annotation and honestly expect to produce high-quality work within such a short time; it's just not realistic as people can't work in a highly concentrated way for long.
Don't worry too much about this lost assignment - sometimes it's better to say no than risk messing up a job and never seeing the customer again because of quality issues; that would bug me more than losing the customer because what they wanted me to do was unrealistic (as they would be at fault, not me). As self-employed workers, it's important for us to realise what we are capable of achieving and what is simply unmanageable.
Regards
Carl ▲ Collapse
| | | |
NinonD wrote:
...he says he wants to let me know how their agency "work"...
That workflow will be:
translator[s] - editor - proofreader - DTPer - [compositor] - subeditor - printer
You would have been what I call here the "subeditor". Ideally, there are no mistakes in the text at that point anymore. But just to make sure, the subeditor goes through it once more. That's why I mentioned 3,000 words/h for that job, whereas for editing the word-count would on average be 1,000 w/h, and for proofreading 2,000 w/h.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | | and you know all this because...? | Sep 11, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: NinonD wrote:
...he says he wants to let me know how their agency "work"... That workflow will be: translator[s] - editor - proofreader - DTPer - [compositor] - subeditor - printer You would have been what I call here the "subeditor". Ideally, there are no mistakes in the text at that point anymore. But just to make sure, the subeditor goes through it once more. Cheers, Hans
| | |
|
|
|
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
and you know all this because...?
… it's standard procedure. And the only explanation why the manual was in PDF format. And why they agency mentioned two days at most for the job (which wouldn't be enough for regular proofing).
I can be wrong, but that would mean the agency is nuts. Agencies rarely are. Never, as far as I know. They can be a lot of things, but nuts? No. In fact, I think they aren't nuts at all, they know very well what they are doing (pushing the limit a little, maybe), and they seem to be friendly at that, promising an explanation for future work even though the job must have been taken by somebody else by now.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | | Need to be careful | Sep 11, 2013 |
You need to be careful with huge editing jobs because:
1. Deadlines for editing jobs are calculated as a fraction of the time it takes to translate, but:
2. Editing can easily take more time if you're supposed to guarantee a high-quality result (as opposed to just doing the best you can in the available time-frame).
Like others said, PDF notes take a lot of time. Things can go awry if you need to suggest many changes.
Finally, I don't like processes t... See more You need to be careful with huge editing jobs because:
1. Deadlines for editing jobs are calculated as a fraction of the time it takes to translate, but:
2. Editing can easily take more time if you're supposed to guarantee a high-quality result (as opposed to just doing the best you can in the available time-frame).
Like others said, PDF notes take a lot of time. Things can go awry if you need to suggest many changes.
Finally, I don't like processes that require the translator to work in some insane rush but still leave a lot of time for the client's or agency's decision-making. That makes it look like someone high up doesn't understand or care.
[Edited at 2013-09-11 15:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 15:23
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Agencies make all sorts of requests | Sep 11, 2013 |
I've worked on several PDFs on jobs that were far from final proofing, e.g. non-native texts full of grammar errors. They can't or won't provide it in a more suitable format.
It's up to us to ensure we earn a reasonable hourly rate.
| | | | | What standard? | Sep 11, 2013 |
Maybe it is different in other language pairs, but I have not met anything I would trust as standard from one agency to another.
There are some rules of thumb, one of which is that it is unwise to accept large, rushed jobs, because my concentration span simply cannot cope with them.
As far as I know, I have never lost a really good client by telling them: sorry, I can't do this in the time, or sorry, I don't know enough about the subject area. The ones worth working for... See more Maybe it is different in other language pairs, but I have not met anything I would trust as standard from one agency to another.
There are some rules of thumb, one of which is that it is unwise to accept large, rushed jobs, because my concentration span simply cannot cope with them.
As far as I know, I have never lost a really good client by telling them: sorry, I can't do this in the time, or sorry, I don't know enough about the subject area. The ones worth working for come back with different offers later. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Congratulations! | Sep 11, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
They can't or won't provide it in a more suitable format.
You met them, the nutty ones. The ones who shoot themselves in the foot by not being able to or not wanting to provide a suitable file format so they'll have to spend heaps of time to implement the changes you made on a PDF…
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Mark Benson (X)
English to Swedish
+ ...
| Any standard? | Sep 11, 2013 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
Maybe it is different in other language pairs, but I have not met anything I would trust as standard from one agency to another.
There are some rules of thumb, one of which is that it is unwise to accept large, rushed jobs, because my concentration span simply cannot cope with them.
As far as I know, I have never lost a really good client by telling them: sorry, I can't do this in the time, or sorry, I don't know enough about the subject area. The ones worth working for come back with different offers later.
What standard? I would say any. Hans' take on it seems like the only plausible one to me too.
| | | | | Impossible job | Sep 11, 2013 |
NinonD wrote:
That timeframe was, and still is what is confusing me the most in this situation. I still do not understand how they could expect me to edit that large of a document in such a short amount of time. I guess I misunderstood their needs? There has to be something I just didn't get.
The same way you did the right thing turning down the translation job offer, I think you should turn down this part of the project too, no matter how good you think your client is, if you know you cannot do a good job in those circumstances.
Given the timeframe they had for the translation, a technical one, they necessarily had to hire several translators. Of course, the translators did not have time to check their own terminology consistency, much less among them. Big, big problem.
If they want you to do a complete editing job, they know perfectly well the job is impossible to do in those circumstances. Probably they just need somebody to put the blame on if something turns out bad. You are their insurance.
You say you are already tired from just exchanging emails, thinking about it, etc., all this without even having made a single penny. The question is: "Is it worth it?"
If all they want is a very quick superficial checking of the PDFs, just to spot obvious errors made during the DTP part of the project, and they clearly state that in writing, not on the phone, that is another story.
[Edited at 2013-09-11 16:19 GMT]
| | | |
..in the opposite direction?
Ask them if they want it fast or if they want it good.
Steve K.
| | |
|
|
|
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I've worked on several PDFs on jobs that were far from final proofing, e.g. non-native texts full of grammar errors. They can't or won't provide it in a more suitable format.
It's up to us to ensure we earn a reasonable hourly rate.
Such requests keep being made because they are not refused. Excuses will be piled, to the point of white lies perhaps, as long as they are accepted. One's got to put his foot down or the state of things won't improve.
| | | |
Meta Arkadia wrote:
I can be wrong, but that would mean the agency is nuts. Agencies rarely are. Never, as far as I know. They can be a lot of things, but nuts? No.
This may end up being correct in this specific instance, but as a general statement I can say from first-hand experience that it is very, very false. There are agencies out there doing things that you would simply not believe - things that defy all business logic and common sense. You should consider yourself very fortunate that you have not had the displeasure of dealing with them.
| | | | Ninon Dion
Canada
Local time: 10:23
Member (2013)
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Would have been happy to | Sep 11, 2013 |
Meta Arkadia wrote: NinonD wrote: How to give a quote then I think you can do around 3,000 words/h. I'd quote 12-15 hours for the job. Two days. Two days of hard work. You see that that is pretty much in line with what the agency wants to hear?
How can you quote 3000 words/h when you have no clue about the nature of the content? There is no way I could have given a serious answer without fishing for more infos first. Especially after he told me he wanted his document to be edited, not just proofread.
I would have been more than happy to work with his deadline if I had received clear instructions from the start, and IF the work he wanted me to do was a final reading with minor changes. Unfortunately that wasn't the case; I was provided with a one line question, without a document to base my reply on.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Help needed regarding a RUSH large editing project | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
