| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Editing a book translation - Client correction rounds Thread poster: AngelaBureau (X)
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AngelaBureau (X) 
France
Local time: 09:47
English to Hungarian
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TOPIC STARTER | Where there is a will... | Feb 18, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: It sounds as though the original version hasn't made any money. Now, he's going to self-publish in about a year's time, and he's going to pay you for working full-time for 9 months before he's seen even a cent? Now, why would he do that? You live in France, so even though you say you've negotiated a lower-than-average rate, you'll need to be bringing in a substantial amount of money each month: even the SMIC (French minimum wage) is over 1400€ a month, and you'll be paying substantial social charges out of your income, and hopefully expecting to earn more than an unskilled labourer. Are you sure he's really thought this through?  [Edited at 2013-02-18 17:44 GMT]
Yes, you are right, Sheila, this does sound a little too good to be true. On the one hand, I am content with the rate we agreed upon with the author, even though it just about touches the SMIC level. Book translation has never made anyone rich (that is, no one that I know of); but there is the element of creative work and the (slight? potential?) chance of one's name appearing in the published work eventually.
On the other hand, this is an author who spent a whole year of his life doing nothing but translating his novel into (not so great quality) English. He can afford not to work when it doesn't suit him... Further, he has had plenty of time since July 2012 to think things through. We have been in regular contact since then, and he has done the legwork regarding publishing. He has absolute faith in the success of his masterpiece, as he likes to call it.
That said, I will indeed make sure to highlight the potential risks associated with his current situation, as discussed in earlier posts with the colleagues.
I cannot make the decision for him; but I am content to relay all the relevant information to him as a responsible professional
| | | | AngelaBureau (X)
France
Local time: 09:47
English to Hungarian
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TOPIC STARTER | Working while taking care of baby | Feb 18, 2013 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
I really think I would say no to this one.
Even if you can cope with it before the baby arrives, can you afterwards?
Looking back, even as one does, with rose-coloured spectacles, I remember the sheer exhaustion of having a baby in the house. I had to lie down and sleep every time my son did!
(...)
Find some more 'ordinary' clients, that is my advice!
Thanks for your insight, Christine! As an experienced mother, I am sure you are more down to earth than I am at this point.
I am trying to be careful and only plan on working part-time while taking care of the baby (after taking a few months off on maternity leave). I am lucky in that both grandmothers will be there to help.
I have agreed to a carefully planned deadline (expecting to work no more than 4 hours a day while looking after my child). The author is aware of my condition, and is not in a rush.
What I will propose to him (if the project goes through!) though is to look for a publisher for volume 1 while I am on maternity leave. This might help get the ball rolling in terms of getting his novel out there.
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 09:47
Member (2009)
English to German
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| Self-publishing | Feb 18, 2013 |
There are two ways to self-publish his works. The first is to create an e-book and promote the book himself, or pay the host for the promotion which starts at US $ 250.00.
The second way is to have a printing company print a paperback or hardcover copy (minimum is usually 50 copies) with an anverage cost of US $ 7.50 (paperback) and up to US $ 32.00 (hardcover). And he would be in charge of promoting the book himself. This means that he will spend a lot of time promoting his book/s ... See more There are two ways to self-publish his works. The first is to create an e-book and promote the book himself, or pay the host for the promotion which starts at US $ 250.00.
The second way is to have a printing company print a paperback or hardcover copy (minimum is usually 50 copies) with an anverage cost of US $ 7.50 (paperback) and up to US $ 32.00 (hardcover). And he would be in charge of promoting the book himself. This means that he will spend a lot of time promoting his book/s and finding people willing to buy it.
There are hundreds of companies out there who would love to take on his books, most of them will charge an upfront reading fee.
So if he's looking for a serious and honest publisher, he should conduct a serious and thorough background check on each one. A good way start is checking out this link: http://pred-ed.com/pebb.htm My advice would be...he should take off those pink glasses and prepare himself for the tough world of publishing.
Angela, all my best wishes for you and the little one. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 10:47
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
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| Just forget about it | Feb 19, 2013 |
I understand you would like to do this, but better do not continue with this client. The English speaking world is hardly interested in foreign books. Only if the author has made himself well known already is there any chance of finding a publisher.
He could publish his English version on Smashwords for no fee at all and would immediately get all channels for e-book, but probably no sales.
If it were a translation into German or French the chances would be slightly better, if the st... See more I understand you would like to do this, but better do not continue with this client. The English speaking world is hardly interested in foreign books. Only if the author has made himself well known already is there any chance of finding a publisher.
He could publish his English version on Smashwords for no fee at all and would immediately get all channels for e-book, but probably no sales.
If it were a translation into German or French the chances would be slightly better, if the story is really good, maybe Stieg-Larsen-like stuff would be needed.
Small language writers just face this situation. Bestseller authors have their publishers select the translator and do the PR. ▲ Collapse
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| I wouldn't do it | Feb 20, 2013 |
I agree with everybody who cautioned about the challenges with publishing and with dealing with this type of author.
However, the real showstopper here is the pregnancy, in my opinion.
Angela, if you want to work while pregnant (especially during the last months), your best bet is to go with smaller jobs. Anything that stretches over several weeks WILL stress you out, even if it is for the world's most wonderful client, because you WILL be worrying about all kinds of things, justifie... See more I agree with everybody who cautioned about the challenges with publishing and with dealing with this type of author.
However, the real showstopper here is the pregnancy, in my opinion.
Angela, if you want to work while pregnant (especially during the last months), your best bet is to go with smaller jobs. Anything that stretches over several weeks WILL stress you out, even if it is for the world's most wonderful client, because you WILL be worrying about all kinds of things, justified or not (this is what hormones do - I am speaking from experience). For example, what happens if your condition suddenly changes and you can't make the deadline, what if you made the wrong word choice, and all kinds of silly things. If you are working on smaller projects, it is much easier to convince yourself that deadlines can be negotiated and clients will be understanding in case one of your imagined catastrophe scenarios actually happen.
Now, if - in addition - you were to work with this particular client, who seems to have the capability to turn this into a very stressful process, you would not enjoy it, you may even hate it, and the stress could actually be harmful for both you and the baby.
Once you get into a long term project like this, you would have no easy way to back out. And you would feel guilty, if you did, causing you more stress. (Again, those pesky hormones will amplify these feelings.)
Think about your baby. Think about your health. You won't have a second chance to be pregnant with this child. You have to provide the best environment for him/her now, and you deserve to enjoy it, too. Anything else is secondary, in my opinion.
If, as you said, the author is not in a hurry, can't you start the process with a short trial, as others suggested, and if that goes well, put the project on hold, until at least a few months passed after your baby is born? During that time, you can work on shorter (and hopefully better paid) projects for other clients, and the author can work out a publishing/marketing plan. Then, after spending the first few months with the baby, you will see how much energy and time you really have left for work. (4 hours every day may be a bit ambitious, especially if you want it in one chunk, uninterrupted, for creative work.)
Good luck
Katalin
[Edited at 2013-02-20 05:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Suzan Hamer
Netherlands
Local time: 09:47
English
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| Well said, Katalin. | Feb 20, 2013 |
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
Think about your baby. Think about your health. You won't have a second chance to be pregnant with this child. You have to provide the best environment for him/her now, and you deserve to enjoy it, too. Anything else is secondary, in my opinion.
I could not agree more.
If you decide not to do this book, I'm pretty sure you will not later look back and regret your decision. However, if you do decide to do it (during your pregnancy and your baby's first months), I believe you may very possibly look back and regret your decision.
[Edited at 2013-02-20 10:52 GMT]
| | | | Elena Volkova
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:47
English to Russian
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| A non-native speaker editing an English book | Feb 20, 2013 |
The above point has not been raised by anyone on this thread so I do wonder whether it still applies... but nevertheless. I have always been under strong impression that editing and proofreading (an ideally translation too, of course) should only be done into one's native language. There are so many nuances in any language and making a teeny-tiny stylistic error is very easy - but a native speaker reading the book will pick that up immediately and it will not go down well. I know I am especially... See more The above point has not been raised by anyone on this thread so I do wonder whether it still applies... but nevertheless. I have always been under strong impression that editing and proofreading (an ideally translation too, of course) should only be done into one's native language. There are so many nuances in any language and making a teeny-tiny stylistic error is very easy - but a native speaker reading the book will pick that up immediately and it will not go down well. I know I am especially particular about this but I am yet to see a perfect Russian translation done by a non-native Russian speaker.
So Angela, especially since through participating in this project you hope to see your name in a published book - I would take caution. Truth is, you can never be absolutely certain that your output is flawless if you are not working into your native language.
Just another point for you to consider.
Good luck with the pregnancy and the baby! ▲ Collapse
| | | | AngelaBureau (X)
France
Local time: 09:47
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Quality assurance | Feb 20, 2013 |
Elena Volkova wrote:
I have always been under strong impression that editing and proofreading (an ideally translation too, of course) should only be done into one's native language. There are so many nuances in any language and making a teeny-tiny stylistic error is very easy - but a native speaker reading the book will pick that up immediately and it will not go down well.
(...)especially since through participating in this project you hope to see your name in a published book - I would take caution. Truth is, you can never be absolutely certain that your output is flawless if you are not working into your native language.
Thank you, Elena, for your input.
I fear there this might not be the right place for me to express my views on this topic. This would require a dissertation of several lengthy pages I believe
Suffice it to say that I am of a different opinion regarding the subject.
As an English teacher of native speakers (as well as speakers of other languages), I have witnessed many a fierce Anglo-Saxon soul, born and bread in their native land, make thunderous mistakes both in their written discourse as well as in oral expression. Also, some of my native English peers at schools I have taught suffered from what they themselves jokingly called "the native speaker's fallacy," i.e., periodic blindness to linguistic mistakes their students would make.
I am not for a second stating that I would do as well as (let alone better!) than a native speaker on this job. However, the fact that I have mainly resorted to using English for the past 20 years of my life (through education, work, international travel and several years spent living in English-speaking countries ) makes me feel confident about by ability to do this job well.
AND as a backup (the bunny from the magician's hat!) I do have a native speaker proofreader who would final-eye the manuscript before it is submitted.
I think it's best to be on the safe side when it comes to quality assurance
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AngelaBureau (X)
France
Local time: 09:47
English to Hungarian
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TOPIC STARTER | Work schedule while pregnant | Feb 20, 2013 |
Suzan Hamer wrote: Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
Think about your baby. Think about your health. You won't have a second chance to be pregnant with this child. You have to provide the best environment for him/her now, and you deserve to enjoy it, too. Anything else is secondary, in my opinion. I could not agree more. If you decide not to do this book, I'm pretty sure you will not later look back and regret your decision. However, if you do decide to do it (during your pregnancy and your baby's first months), I believe you may very possibly look back and regret your decision. [Edited at 2013-02-20 10:52 GMT]
Katalin, Suzan,
Thank you for your kind words and immensely useful advice. You do make me feel part of this big family that is the translators' community. All the ladies who have posted here thus far have expressed their motherly concerns in the nicest possible way. Thank you all for that!
I entirely agree with you in that any work engagement should be done with due caution while one is expecting her child. Thinking carefully about all the advice I have received above, this is exactly what I am planning to do: I have submitted my final proposal for work schedule to the author, suggesting that I only work until the eighth month of the pregnancy, then, resume collaboration once the baby is about 6 months old.
This would mean I complete the first volume to start with; which would allow for the author to find a publisher (or not?) and think about his marketing strategy while I am on maternity leave.
Of course, my proposal contained a firm clause on NOT doing any weekly correction rounds Regarding this matter, as mentioned earlier, I have suggested to the writer that we do a 'test' with me editing one chapter of his choice (for a set fee). He would have the opportunity to review it and discuss any comments, questions, etc he might have BEFORE we sign a contract of any nature.
Currently I am awaiting his response.
For what it may be worth to the translators' community using this forum, I will get back to you on what the author's final decision was.
| | | | Elena Volkova
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:47
English to Russian
+ ...
AngelaBureau wrote: AND as a backup (the bunny from the magician's hat!) I do have a native speaker proofreader who would final-eye the manuscript before it is submitted. I think it's best to be on the safe side when it comes to quality assurance
Thanks Angela - you could have really just put the above sentence in your response and that would have been more than sufficient!
I would never argue with you that being a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean having a perfect command of the language - in fact I agree wholeheartedly that it's not always the case. But since we are discussing linguists here and not just random people speaking a few languages, I would always choose a native-speaker for translation, editing or proofreading.
Seems you got that covered so you have my blessing!
[Edited at 2013-02-20 15:06 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 08:47
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Maybe do step one only? | Feb 20, 2013 |
Elena Volkova wrote:
I have always been under strong impression that editing and proofreading (an ideally translation too, of course) should only be done into one's native language. There are so many nuances in any language and making a teeny-tiny stylistic error is very easy - but a native speaker reading the book will pick that up immediately and it will not go down well.
I would normally have picked up on this, but Angela has given us many paragraphs of proof that her English is native equivalent.
But maybe this is another way of avoiding some of the hassle of this job:
1) you do a first run though and get your name in print as the copy-editor
2) a native speaker gives it a final check and gets his/her name in print as proofreader
Just a thought.
| | | | | Additional monetary factor | Feb 20, 2013 |
AngelaBureau wrote:
AND as a backup (the bunny from the magician's hat!) I do have a native speaker proofreader who would final-eye the manuscript before it is submitted.
Who will pay your proofreader's fee? You or the author?
If you will pay it, it would be terrible if this expense were too big of a chunk out of the fee you will charge the author.
Or, even worse, God forbid, but what if you do not get paid in the end? You would still have to pay your proofreader! (Sorry, I do not want to sound too negative, but still...!)
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Sarah McDowell
Canada
Local time: 02:47
Member (2012)
Russian to English
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| payment in stages | Feb 20, 2013 |
Miguel Carmona wrote: AngelaBureau wrote:
AND as a backup (the bunny from the magician's hat!) I do have a native speaker proofreader who would final-eye the manuscript before it is submitted.
Who will pay your proofreader's fee? You or the author? If you will pay it, it would be terrible if this expense were too big of a chunk out of the fee you will charge the author. Or, even worse, God forbid, but what if you do not get paid in the end? You would still have to pay your proofreader! (Sorry, I do not want to sound too negative, but still...!)
I would think that something as large as a book would not be paid upon delivery. I imagine that you would have delivery and payment in stages.
Who usually pays for the proofreading fees? I am in a similar situation myself and I am not sure if it is usually the author's responsibility to find a proofreader or the translator should find a proofreader and take this into account when quoting their fees.
| | | | | Client with low budget, high expectations: RUN AWAY! | Feb 21, 2013 |
Clients with low budgets and high expectations usually have huge egos and can turn into the clients from hell!
Projects that large require a 50% non refundable retainer (deposit). Also, if you go against your gut feeling and take the job, at least make sure that you receive final version of the book. Otherwise you will have a never ending project in your hands!
Also, do not be lured by promises of adding your name crediting you as translator. Our credit is our pay... See more Clients with low budgets and high expectations usually have huge egos and can turn into the clients from hell!
Projects that large require a 50% non refundable retainer (deposit). Also, if you go against your gut feeling and take the job, at least make sure that you receive final version of the book. Otherwise you will have a never ending project in your hands!
Also, do not be lured by promises of adding your name crediting you as translator. Our credit is our payment! I prefer not to be listed as translator because sometimes they change the translation without your permission and butcher up a great job.
Best of luck with your pregnancy!
[Edited at 2013-02-21 08:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Working while pregnant | Feb 22, 2013 |
I've followed this thread for a while now and finally decided to join in as well.
I understand this is your first child, right? I would be extremely cautious with planning at this stage of your pregancy.
First of all, you may feel great right now (and I really hope you do!) but you don't know how you will feel next month, let alone towards the end of your pregnancy.
Second of all, have you heard of "pregnant mind" aka "mumnesia"?
Scientists still ar... See more I've followed this thread for a while now and finally decided to join in as well.
I understand this is your first child, right? I would be extremely cautious with planning at this stage of your pregancy.
First of all, you may feel great right now (and I really hope you do!) but you don't know how you will feel next month, let alone towards the end of your pregnancy.
Second of all, have you heard of "pregnant mind" aka "mumnesia"?
Scientists still argue whether mumnesia is a myth or a scietific fact but a lot of women (including myself and a lot of my collegues) observe a drop in their cognitive skills. Pregnancy also affects your vision, so you may be putting your reputation as a translator at risk.
I felt great during my first pregnancy but worked only until I was in my fifth month. When I got pregnant again I just naturally assumed that I would feel just as well and decided to work until my eighth month - well, needless to say, my baby had other plans...
I did work but I had problems concentrating and my performance was not up to my usual level - I did not notice a lot of things even though I proofread my work. The quality of my work definitely suffered - I kept forgetting things and my vision deteriorated. Eventually I decided to stop before all my clients abandon me.
Sitting at the computer with a huge baby bump was not an easy task either, especially when the baby starts kicking you to remind you she's there... Well, the usual joys of pregnancy;)
Translating once the baby is already there is another story, especially when the project is soooo huge like yours. Both pregnancy and giving birth are very demanding but the whole fun starts AFTER you give birth - you can take any decisions you want but the fact is it's no longer only about you - your baby also has some say - ok, so he or she can't speak yet, isn't even born yet but still - if there's something they don't like (like sitting at the computer while pregnant) they will kick you, and once he or she is born, she will let you know loud enough whether she likes your decision or not;)
Last but not least, your priorities may also change once you give birth - a project that may seem so great right now will be nothing compared to that toothless grin on your baby's face when they see you. I have 2 kids - my son is almost 4 and my daughter is 9-month-old - I love translating, I really do but right now I'd much rather spend my time with my kids than haunched over the computer, even if it's the best paid and easiest job I've ever had.
Best of luck!
Anna ▲ Collapse
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